The Journey to Motherhood: Single Parent by Choice

Trigger warning: infertility, pregnancy loss, pregnancy

In this interview, Jen Miller, a realtor based in Denver, shares her story of becoming a single mother by choice. She provides an honest insight into dealing with the intricacies of IVF treatments, fertility challenges, failed pregnancies and the hardships that come with the decision to have a baby. Jen explored the process of choosing a sperm donor and the struggle of deciding whether to use her eggs or a donor's eggs. At several points on her journey, she experienced failed pregnancies and had to make difficult decisions to keep trying or to stop. Throughout it all, she maintained her career and kept on thriving in her professional life. At the end of her journey, she managed to get a healthy pregnancy, leading to the birth of her son Brooks, who is now four years old.

Connect with Jen on Instagram @JQMiller15

00:00 Introduction: The Decision to Become a Single Mom

01:06 Podcast Begins: Welcoming the Guest

01:29 Introducing Jen Miller: A Single Mom by Choice

02:32 The Stigma of Geriatric Pregnancy

04:55 The Journey Begins: Choosing a Sperm Donor

07:46 The Reality of IVF and Egg Freezing

15:47 The Emotional Rollercoaster of Failed Attempts

20:40 The Importance of a Support System

23:30 The Challenges of Balancing Work and Fertility Treatments

25:01 Introduction and Misunderstandings

25:40 The Journey of Egg Retrieval

26:38 The Struggles of Waiting and Uncertainty

28:06 The Emotional Rollercoaster of IVF

32:20 The Decision to Use a Donor

34:04 The Challenges of Finding a Donor

37:19 The Joy and Fear of Pregnancy

41:10 The Reality of Being a Single Mom

48:46 The Balance of Motherhood and Career

49:38 Conclusion and Contact Information

Transcript

Jen Miller: 0:00

do you really want a baby or not? Because. You are literally going to, you, you have the rest of your life to find a partner and you don't have the rest of your life, you know, to have a baby, you've gotta cut off and it's, it's coming fast and you need to either put your, the rest of it on hold and move forward and focus like solely on that. Or not. And like, it's okay if you don't want to be selfish, take care of you, like do what's right for you, but like that's what you need to think about.

Cheryl: 1:05

Hi everybody. Welcome back.

Colleen: 1:08

Hi friends.

Cheryl: 1:09

Pod people. I'm playing with the term pod people. What do you guys

Colleen: 1:13

I love it. I love that. I love that for us.

Cheryl: 1:16

Good. Okay.

Colleen: 1:16

well, we're really, really excited today and I'm also very excited because guess what, I'm gonna do the intro today, which is like, so fun. So we are.

Cheryl: 1:26

take the wheel.

Colleen: 1:27

Jesus. We are so happy to have our good, good friend Jen Miller, who is like an outstanding realtor based out of Denver. But she's not here today to talk to us about real estate, although you can if you want, Jen. But Jen is a mom. And she is a single mom by choice. And we wanna talk to her about that journey and about that story. Because I feel like this is something that, and we felt like this was something important to bring to the forefront and champion these amazing parents.'cause honestly, it's not always women who are having. Children or, you know, adopting children or birthing children by themselves, solo by choice. And sometimes at what we would consider a quote unquote an older age. You know, like, which also is rude.

Cheryl: 2:23

I would, I would never say that to you, Jen. She really botched the,

Colleen: 2:26

No, my god.

Cheryl: 2:30

Colleen, you.

Colleen: 2:32

So like if you're having, if you're pregnant, right? And you're 35, when the baby's born, which I was with my youngest, it was rudely called a geriatric pregnancy, and that's

Jen Miller: 2:42

Oh yeah,

Colleen: 2:44

adv. Well, yeah,

Jen Miller: 2:45

you're old

Colleen: 2:46

old according to Medicine.

Jen Miller: 2:49

America not.

Colleen: 2:52

America American Medicine. So anyway. Cheryl's never gonna let me do the bios again. Anyway, by the way, I totally was non-scripted everyone. I didn't have anything to read, so just take it

Jen Miller: 3:05

Next time I know.

Cheryl: 3:08

I, this advanced maternal age was a factor in why my children are so close in age because I'm a, I was a very high risk pregnancy as it was, and we were trying to get in ahead of advanced maternal age at 35, and I think I delivered at 35, but not quite 36, or he delivered at 34, not quite 35. So to add, no more complications. Just really skimmed in, which is why my kids are so fucking close in age and I do not recommend this path. If you could avoid it, ladies and gentlemen,

Jen Miller: 3:40

Just to avoid being called.

Colleen: 3:43

Yeah,

Cheryl: 3:43

I should have just been old. I.

Colleen: 3:45

I was 34 with Jackson, who was my fourth, and I was going to be 35 when I delivered. And they handed me the ultrasound report and on there it was like, you know, conditions to whatever it says, like conditions to be aware of or something like that. And it was like geriatric pregnancy. And I looked at the nurse and I was like, this is rude. And she was like. Anyway, enough about us, Jen.

Cheryl: 4:11

No, I have one more thing. I'm sorry. I have to share this. When I delivered one of the babies, I'm not sure which one it was, I had preeclampsia with all three. And so they worry about the, the placenta aging is like one of the issues they're worried about why they deliver you early and and my age. And my doctor pulls out the placenta and delivered it now and she's like, this placenta doesn't look old at all. Like, thanks. Thank you so much.

Jen Miller: 4:34

Thank you. I.

Cheryl: 4:37

Anti-aging cream on that placenta.

Colleen: 4:42

Oh my God. Okay, now it's Jen's turn. Welcome, Jen. We're so excited to have you here.

Jen Miller: 4:48

you ladies. I'm happy to be here. Always enjoyed spending.

Cheryl: 4:53

We always love it. Will you kind of tell us, tell us your path to having the superstar Brooks, who's like infamous within Compass 6amers and actually before you tell us your story, tell us about your airport encounter the other day in Oakland. I think you were in Oakland.

Jen Miller: 5:13

Oakland of all random places. Yeah, we were on our way to Hawaii and had a 6:00 AM flight out of Denver. So I'm looking fine. You know, Oakland Airport connection and we're walking in between the terminals and this woman and her husband stop and they're like, Brooks, Brooks.

Cheryl: 5:37

is.

Jen Miller: 5:43

She's this.

Colleen: 5:46

Oh my God. Oh my God. Hilarious Brooks'. Mom,

Jen Miller: 5:58

Right. I was like, oh. She's like, oh, I him from 6:00 AM and I just had to say hi, and she's like trying tell her husband.

Cheryl: 6:11

Brooks is like, I've for one autograph.

Colleen: 6:14

no

Jen Miller: 6:15

I texted Sky and I was like, you'll never believe what just happened. And he's like, who was it? I'm like, I don't even know. I don't, I was like, they live in that area and I could probably tell you what office she said she was out of, but I dunno her name.

Colleen: 6:27

Oh my God.

Cheryl: 6:27

So

Jen Miller: 6:28

did you get a photo? I'm like, no, I didn't get a

Colleen: 6:30

Hilarious charge for those, by the way.

Cheryl: 6:34

So

Jen Miller: 6:34

know. I was like, apparently I need my kid to be my pr. I don't even get on six very early anymore or ever early.

Cheryl: 6:42

you could, this is justification to, to, uh, start paying him in right off his salary.

Colleen: 6:46

You.

Jen Miller: 6:46

I Right. Actually not about

Colleen: 6:49

Everyone should be doing that, by the way, I did

Cheryl: 6:51

Uh, I am not a, I am not a tax specialist, so please consult your personal CPA for your own personal advice.

Colleen: 6:57

Yes.

Jen Miller: 6:57

did and got told no.

Colleen: 6:59

Oh, my CPA was like, yeah, do it. All three of'em as much as you can. I was like, oh, okay. Great.

Cheryl: 7:06

We gotta get, we get

Jen Miller: 7:07

No, I asked my, my financial advisor and he said no. So maybe I'll ask my CPA

Colleen: 7:12

ask your CPA, ask the person until you get the answer you want. That's my theory.

Jen Miller: 7:18

right.

Cheryl: 7:21

Just hang up, keep hanging up on the IRS and calling back until you get a generous agent. Let's go. Tell us your path, tell your path to having a famous

Colleen: 7:32

Yeah. Brooks is four now. So when did you, we'll give you a little guidance, like when did you make that decision to kind of start this journey on your own?

Jen Miller: 7:42

about like 10 years ago. Well, I should say my parents funny enough have always been very pro, me being a mom, supporting this and were like, you know, if you're not. Married by like 35, 36, like, we wanna help you freeze your eggs. And I'm like, leave me alone, you know, whatever. I'm fine. I'm dating, blah, blah, blah. You know, 35 comes and they're like, okay, like let's do this. So I think a month, which were, I turned 36, I froze my.

Colleen: 8:20

Hmm.

Jen Miller: 8:20

Which I remember feeling like, oh my God, this is like so hard and so dramatic, and blah, blah blah. And I was like graduating from grad school at the time and had to fake drinking at my own graduation party and all this stuff. And, so anyway, freeze eggs, continue on with life dating, you know, couple more serious relationships blow up and at like 38. I was like, huh, okay, so what am I gonna do? To be honest, I don't remember who, like kind of, oh, actually I do know who put the bug in my air. This is weird. I was like, this is funny. So I was on like one of the dating apps like Tinder or. Whatever. I don't remember what it was. And I was skiing in Steamboat and I matched with this guy and I'll give you like the very short version, but hung out with him for like a few months. Would like literally drive up there after teaching, like spend the night, drive home, would spend the night with him. He was a divorced dad and he had two

Colleen: 9:27

Hmm.

Jen Miller: 9:29

and super hot and he was like, You need to. And I would like hang out with his daughters. It was very weird. I don't know. He was like such a player and he is like, you need to be a mom. And I was like, whatcha talking about? And he's like, I wanna, I wanna help you be a mom. I was like, what do you mean? You

Colleen: 9:47

That's a very interesting line by the way,

Jen Miller: 9:52

Right. I mean, not your typical Tinder match. I wanna help you have a kid. He's like, I've looked into this, I've like talked to my lawyer. I wanna help you. I, but I'm just going to be a donor. He is like, this isn't going to be my kid. Obviously he's my kid, but like, it's not gonna be the same as my children. Like I will be this, I will be involved in his life how you want me to, but I am not going to be like his dad. I was like, okay. So he kind of got me like thinking about it and I was like, eventually, I'm like, no, I don't, I don't think this is going to work. I appreciate you, but like, how would I ever explain to this child that. You don't get the same treatment that your other kids do. Right? Like, you and I get that and that we're not like in it for the long haul, but like, that just doesn't feel good. So anyway, he got me thinking about the process, got me in the door you know, talking to my gynecologist, what do I do if I wanna, like, test my fertility if I want, you know, initially I was like, what if I want go down this route with this? So we got this like fertility testing done and basically had to make a call like, are you gonna come down and do this and come with me, or am I just saying sperm bank? Here we go. And ultimately, obviously said, you know, I'm, I'm just gonna go pick somebody on, on the interwebs like a.

Colleen: 11:21

how does that work? Like tell, tell us about how do you pick, like do I.

Jen Miller: 11:27

Oh my God. Okay. So it is not, it is crazy in my head, like when I started thinking about this, I was like, what do you do? You go into like a dark room with like magazines and like pick some dude and he's got a vi in the corner, like, I don't know, felt very weird.

Colleen: 11:42

like do you go.

Jen Miller: 11:45

It it like impressively, like broad, like the, or not, I shouldn't say broad. It has so much information, these sites that you, it's shocking, like you can narrow down to the smallest details. So it's like a, it's like an online dating site, obviously for your sperm donor. But I mean, you can go and you obviously want to go into like all the genetics and all that kind of stuff, but you five eight.

Cheryl: 12:16

Well, Alex is only five seven. I think you rolled out a pretty good sper, but go

Jen Miller: 12:22

Sorry. I guess there was a tab for under five eight, but there was very few people in that.

Cheryl: 12:28

Okay, great.

Jen Miller: 12:29

Um, but you would go down, I mean, you could go into, you know what? Heritage you had, you can go into like all these specifics, right? And then you get it narrowed down. You look through all these things. I mean, you could listen to their voices. You could, they would have like paragraphs. The one, the, the company that I went through had, so obviously it's only kids photos. They don't show adult photos of what these people look like. So you're not like walking down the street going, oh.

Colleen: 12:58

Interesting.

Jen Miller: 13:02

It's very weird.

Colleen: 13:02

so fascinated. Also, I have a question. Is there a six foot and above tab?

Jen Miller: 13:08

Oh yeah.

Colleen: 13:08

Oh wow. Okay.

Jen Miller: 13:09

Oh yeah. There was like over six two, I think was maybe the,

Cheryl: 13:14

Do they tell you their birth?

Jen Miller: 13:17

their birth weight.

Cheryl: 13:18

Yeah, just

Jen Miller: 13:19

No, I no,

Cheryl: 13:22

what am I getting myself into kind of

Colleen: 13:24

11 pound

Jen Miller: 13:25

Yeah. Not that I remember.

Cheryl: 13:28

My grandpa was 15 pounds when

Colleen: 13:30

That's not okay. That's a watermelon.

Cheryl: 13:32

He was born in 1925, so bet your ass was born at home.

Jen Miller: 13:37

wow.

Cheryl: 13:38

I know.

Colleen: 13:39

Okay. Sorry, Jen, go on.

Cheryl: 13:43

I just.

Jen Miller: 13:45

No, that's a good point. I don't remember that being on there. They would show ba, you know, baby photos, childhood photos, and then they would compare them to actors

Colleen: 13:56

Oh.

Jen Miller: 13:56

of what they look like as, so like a couple different ones.

Cheryl: 13:59

doppelganger. So funny.

Jen Miller: 14:02

I know. So, I remember the first time I had like two or three of my good friends come over. We like went through it all and like dug in. And they also make you, while you're going through this process you have to have like a psych appointment and you know, obviously make sure you're in like a good head space. They give you some advice of like what to do while picking sperm donors, all these kinds of things. So. That into effect. The whole thing, being very thoughtful about the process. You know, we pick one. And I'm like, okay. So to, to go backwards a little bit. When I first started this process, I decided to try IUI first. So IU UI is like Turkey. ideally, you know, just time it and you're good. It really makes you realize that it's like very hard to get pregnant. Even with like going to the doctor's appointments, watching your cycle, everything. It's like, I mean, and also I was like 38, so they're like, it's like a 10% chance this will work. I.

Colleen: 15:07

Okay.

Cheryl: 15:10

Loving these odds.

Jen Miller: 15:12

Yeah, it's gonna be great. And meanwhile, I'm teaching, so I'm like doing these appointments like preschool or taking like a half day. This is was terrible. Anyway, long story short, do four of those did not work and they're like, you need to. You need to just go to IVF. Like it's, if you really wanna do this, like you have to, like, the odds are so much higher, you know, we just gotta move forward. So we did and

Colleen: 15:43

I have a question.

Cheryl: 15:44

eggs that were 36 years old or 35 years old.

Jen Miller: 15:47

right.

Colleen: 15:48

Yeah, I have a question. Is there. This is a very weird question, so if you don't wanna answer it, fine, but like, could you run out of the sperm for, from the donor?

Jen Miller: 16:01

Oh yeah, you do. You have to buy it like multiple times,

Colleen: 16:05

Whoa.

Jen Miller: 16:06

like, so each sper order, it's not cheap. It's like a thousand dollars per vial.

Cheryl: 16:12

and men are just giving the shit away all the time.

Jen Miller: 16:15

Yeah, it's so annoying. And like so simple for them to do much less, you know, women who wanna do an egg donor, it's like fricking huge process. Anyway, so they, yeah. So you're buying like new vials, they can run out,

Colleen: 16:30

Would you have to. like, yeah. Do you have to pick a new donor? Like is there, is that a possibility?

Jen Miller: 16:36

Oh yeah. I mean, you can have all the plans in the world like I did, and then it's like,

Colleen: 16:42

Whoa.

Jen Miller: 16:43

so yeah, I was like, he, I kept using this like same genre. I had bought a couple vials of his stuff and so I transferred. I had, I had done the egg freezing with a different company than I ended up doing. My, I, well, doesn't really matter. Didn't like the company that I did the freezing with, so transferred the eggs, which they made into a huge ordeal, but, you know, transferred them the whole like three miles between the two places. And, went forward with like the IVF with them. We do it using those frozen.

Colleen: 17:20

Okay.

Jen Miller: 17:22

Do the genetic testing and every single one comes back bad. And I'm like so much for that, you know, security blanket of having those on hand. So yes, disappointing. So then I'm, so then I'm like, okay, great. I have to do the egg freezing again. Right? And get this going again. So the problem is when the eggs, they don't know which was the problem, right? They don't know if it was me or if it was the donor I chose, which is the problem with any of this kind of stuff because it's already an embryo when they test it.

Colleen: 17:56

Okay.

Jen Miller: 17:56

so donor that was very thoughtfully picked, thrown out the window.

Colleen: 18:00

Oh, okay. Wait, what was

Jen Miller: 18:03

so they're, because they're like.

Colleen: 18:05

This is important information.

Jen Miller: 18:07

Oh, uh, I don't, I don't remember you guys. I'm Sorry.

Colleen: 18:12

It's not important, but I did wanna know and I know.

Jen Miller: 18:15

I went, I went through a few, so I started to get less and less, um, attached to,

Colleen: 18:22

fair enough.

Jen Miller: 18:24

I know, I wish I remembered, but yeah, he's long gone. I didn't save his.

Cheryl: 18:30

That's probably healthy.

Colleen: 18:30

Yeah.

Cheryl: 18:31

Throw away the old shoe boxes,

Jen Miller: 18:33

Right. Didn't make it, didn't make the cut. But yeah, had to go through it again. Went through the whole thing. You know, this time around I was like, oh, you know,, egg retrieval. It's not as bad the second time around you're like, all right, I can do this. Like, shoot yourself up in the stomach a couple times and

Cheryl: 18:52

Well, and let's talk about that too, Jen, because you were doing that by yourself. So you often hear like, my sister, sorry sister, I won't tell which one you are if you don't talk about this, but they did IVF and like she had her husband help her with those shots. But you were doing this on your own and

Jen Miller: 19:08

That first time I was freaking out a little bit

Cheryl: 19:11

Mm-hmm.

Jen Miller: 19:12

because things started to go funny. Like they didn't like the way my numbers were. And of course it was like. Saturday afternoon or something and they changed all my meds and I was like, I don't, I don't know how to do this shot. They wanted me to do it intramuscular instead of like in my stomach. And that's scary when you've never done it. Right.

Cheryl: 19:33

But.

Jen Miller: 19:33

to like, yeah. So I ended up, you can do your arm. I forgot about this. I had to awkwardly call my friend's sister, who's a nurse who I don't know very well. And be like, can you come over and help me? Oh yeah, I'm doing IVF by the way, and can you like do this shot for me? So she like totally came over on the weekend and did the shot and you know, I was like, I'll figure it out from here. and then I think my mom might have, I can't remember if my mom was visiting. Somebody helped me with like the butt shot.'cause I didn't know how to do it the first time. But it's shocking because once you actually get going into the IVF process, when you do like, have the actual transfer happening, you have to do these shots every day and it's in your leg. Like I had this like whole formula and it was like leg, leg, butt, butt. Like I had the heating pad. You know, and you're like, please God, no one look at my legs or my butt.'cause they're bruised everywhere. But

Colleen: 20:39

And who's who's your support system? Who's your support system during all this? Is it your parents? Is it your

Jen Miller: 20:46

So yeah, good question. So, but to back it up a little bit like just to move forward with all of this, like, it, obviously I had to put my life, you know. So, not social life, but like romantic life on hold. Like I think I maybe went on one or two dates when I was pregnant, but that was just weird. And talked to like a friend of a friend who, and I think I've told you this, Cheryl, that who did this, and she was like, here's what you really need to think about. You, you need to decide like, do you really want a baby or not? Because. You are literally going to, you, you have the rest of your life to find a partner and you don't have the rest of your life, you know, to have a baby, you've gotta cut off and it's, it's coming fast and you need to either put your, the rest of it on hold and move forward and focus like solely on that. Or not. And like, it's okay if you don't want to be selfish, take care of you, like do what's right for you, but like that's what you need to think about. And she's like, you're gonna need a support system and you're gonna want help in the beginning when you have a baby. So I had to have like a conversation with my parents who are divorced and I talked to my mom and I was like, look, if I do this and I get pregnant, I need you to come here for like the first three months. I need, I need help. I just need someone to like lend a hand and Oh, by the way, you cannot stay in my house too.

Cheryl: 22:16

You a nice down the street mom.

Jen Miller: 22:18

Yep. Airbnb like five blocks away. She tried to spend one night in my house, like on the floor. Didn't even wake up when he woke up. And I was like, yeah.

Colleen: 22:28

Done.

Cheryl: 22:29

Fired,

Colleen: 22:30

Goodbye.

Cheryl: 22:31

but like am for the first feeding of the day, please.

Jen Miller: 22:35

I was like, you don't wake up early. You don't wake up during the night. Like this is what makes, why would I get up to wake you up to help me? That defeats the whole purpose.

Colleen: 22:46

Yeah, and sometimes that's more frustrating when you're watching somebody who's supposed to be helping you and they're not.

Jen Miller: 22:53

Yes. Yes.

Cheryl: 22:55

a hundred percent of

Jen Miller: 22:56

up with like a plan and she would help and I would go to bed early and she would help with like the 10 11 feeding,'cause she's like a total night owl. And I would, you know, get up. At like 12 or one, so I could get like, at least like a few hours of sleep as he was like sleep, you know, just a baby. Luckily he sleep trained very easily, so that wasn't a long process. But anyway, so yes, my support, my mom ended up, she was a good support, but not, she lives in Philadelphia, so she was not here for all of that. I had a few good friends who knew what I was doing. and my brother and sister-in-Law live here. And this is funny, I was, so, I was teaching when I first started doing all this, and I, you would have to go to like these ultrasound appointments at like seven 30, right? Was the first one. 7 37 45. They're on 15 minute windows and you're like, I gotta get in and outta here to get to work. It's like across town. And so I'm like sitting waiting outside the door one day and my friend that I know from teaching like walks up and I was like, hi, Emily. And she's like, whatcha doing here? I'm like, wait, uh, probably same thing you are. And so we would like kind of laugh and then it was hilarious because we, we both had our like egg. Retrievals right around the same, I think around the same time. Or she had an appointment the same day I had mine. And my sister-in-law took me to the appointment because they drug you and you have to come home. You can't drive. And so she sees, I don't dunno how, I don't remember how it got put together, but she saw me maybe go in with and with my sister-in-Law. And then they saw her and they were like. Oh, like basically, long story short, I can't remember how it came out, but they were like, oh, she's her partner. And of course my sister-in-Law, who is very funny, like totally played into it. And

Colleen: 24:53

Oh my God.

Cheryl: 24:54

You probably had the same last name too,

Jen Miller: 24:56

We do. Right, exactly. Yeah. So they were like, oh, is she okay? And she's like, oh, she's good. I got her. You know, and my friend like texted me later and she's like, oh, I met Teal. She's so sweet. I'm like, she's my sister-in-Law. Not my partner. But yes, she.

Cheryl: 25:19

She is really cool. Thanks for noticing. Good job brother.

Jen Miller: 25:23

My sister-in-Law was like, yes, I love it. I relationship.

Cheryl: 25:35

Okay, so you go and you're getting retrieval and for your second time having retrieval, and then how does it go?

Jen Miller: 25:44

So I retrieval is good. I can't remember. I got a bunch of eggs. Did a, you know, they do the make them into embryos. I think like four made it genetic testing. One comes back. Okay,

Colleen: 25:59

Wow.

Jen Miller: 26:00

do a transfer. I'm just gonna do the fast forward version here. Do a transfer. Get the call. I. Yay. Hooray. They have you do a test and three days later, not pregnant, chemical pregnancy. Right. So I was like, oh, that's a thing. Didn't know that. So very I feel like they shouldn't even tell you after the first test because if that, you know, obviously just gives you false hope for like three days.

Colleen: 26:30

Yeah,

Jen Miller: 26:36

Another egg retrieval another

Colleen: 26:38

time duration during all of this?'cause obviously you're giving us the fast forward version, but like that this is a long period of time, right?

Jen Miller: 26:47

it is a long period of time. So yeah, you have to like get your period again and you have to like, maybe like once or twice to get like your cycle moving forward and get all the drugs out. And it depends, like egg retrieval, you can do egg retrievals back to back pretty quickly, but like with the hormones for IVF, like it is no joke. So that was, and it's frustrating because you're like, I don't have time to like do all this, you know, I don't wanna keep waiting. So you're waiting like three or four months to start the whole process again. And then, you know, go back into it. Then you do the egg retrieval. Then again, they're like, all right, you need to have like a. so it's like probably two months between like the e egg retrieval and the transfer ideally, but you're also on like pins and needles waiting for Okay. How many em, there's like a two week period when they get the eggs out and they make the embryos and you're finding out like how many survive in the Petri dish, basically getting these calls, you know, day five update. Day seven, update. So then you get that, then you go to the genetic testing. Same thing. It's like 10 days to wait and hear how that goes. And again, you're like, no control. I don't like,

Colleen: 28:03

So

Jen Miller: 28:03

and. So much waiting, so much stress. It's, yeah, it's not a, it's not a fun process. Not for the light of heart, but yeah. So did it again, one again, genetics. Genetically one embryo came back. Okay. So transfer again doing 8 billion. So then even when you have like the one I. Probably five weeks of taking just shots and drugs to get your body prepped for the transfer.

Colleen: 28:37

Oh my God.

Jen Miller: 28:38

And then, and I don't know, maybe it's shorter now. It's been a couple years, but put it in and then you're doing. I, I don't remember. Six weeks more of like drugs and everything to try to, it is, I mean, it's amazing that you can do this and just like trick your body into this is this pregnancy that you created. And they do. There's like all these things. I was laughing, I was looking at like, um, one of my good friends from high school went through IVF and IUI and all this stuff and she was sending me like, you know, you do this blackberry kale smoothie every day and everyone's got like their, you know, things that like you should be doing. And I remember my doctor making me use this app that would like try to keep me my stress levels down and like do all these meditations. Putting in intra lipids and all this stuff to just try and strengthen all of it. So yeah, so go through it, get pregnant again, which is great. Everything's going okay. And then at nine weeks had miscarriage.

Colleen: 29:42

Ugh.

Jen Miller: 29:43

And so at that point I was like, f this shit, you know.

Colleen: 29:48

Yeah. Yeah.

Jen Miller: 29:51

A lot. And my, you know, financially and mentally and, you know,'cause of course none of the drugs are covered by insurance. No companies in Colorado cover any of this basically. Things of course, literally right after I stopped I think one of our insurance companies started, I think Kaiser started covering. Some, some of it. But I was like, this is, this is crazy. So I remember talking to you, get really close to your nurses, which is why I always say to me, picking the company I did that was much more friendly and not a factory was such a. Made a huge difference to me. My doctor was available to me and would respond to me, whether he was on call or not, within like 24 hours. Like he was so nice. Whereas like this renowned company here not at all. They don't give a, they're like, let's just do this. I'm gonna charge, youll, I don't one crap about it.

Cheryl: 30:53

so let this be a reminder that matter what industry you are in. You should be treating people like people, ladies, and.

Jen Miller: 31:00

Yes, you should. And it's, you know, it's it was such, it was so nice. Like he would get on, like, zoom wasn't even a thing. I don't even know what we used Skype or something. I remember sitting in a parked car talking to him like in a parking lot one day.

Cheryl: 31:15

I would say FaceTime, but Jen just recently came over to the

Colleen: 31:19

She's an Android

Cheryl: 31:20

her.

Jen Miller: 31:22

I. If you capabilities, you would too

Colleen: 31:26

We don't wanna know. We like our bubble. Okay. now we've had two, two failed pregnancies. And how deep, how long are you into this process now? Is this a year? Is this nine months?

Jen Miller: 31:41

Oh. I'm trying to think and work backwards here. This had been probably a year and a half at least. If not two, almost two probably. Yeah, actually. So I did that the last failed pregnancy was like a year exactly before my next

Colleen: 32:03

Mm. Wow.

Jen Miller: 32:05

so yeah, I had to like wait a while on. So I was talking to a nurse and I was talking to my doctor and they're like, you know, the good news is you can get pregnant. Bad news is you're not keeping these pregnancies and we don't know why. So speaking back of age, like you're probably have some old eggs and this might be the problem. And he had been talking to me about this all along of like, you know, donor. A double donor kind of pregnancy. And I was like, I don't wanna, I don't wanna, I want my own. And he's like, okay. I'm gonna give you some stuff to listen to. Just think about it like, even though these are not a hundred percent genetically your, your child, like you're carrying the baby, there's a reason we do not let surrogates be siblings or even family members because the surrogate, oh. Passes along part of their genes to that

Colleen: 33:04

Oh.

Jen Miller: 33:04

And we have people who do this and they like lose their mind and are like, this was, this isn't my kid. Like, that's their

Colleen: 33:11

Whoa.

Jen Miller: 33:12

Yeah, it's really interesting and there's like TED Talks and all this kind of stuff about it and. So he is like, you know, third time might be a charm. It's whatever you wanna do. Like I will do it. Super nice guy, right? So then I'm like, I dunno what to do. I talked to my nurse and she's like, can I call you? It's like, yeah. She's like, do you want a baby? Yes, I obviously want a baby. She's like, then you use a donor. Because that is gonna be a healthier option and a more, you know, higher percentage that this is gonna work. And I'm like, okay. And she's like, I'm just, I'm just trying to keep it straight with you. Like if you're gonna put yourself through this again, because I was like, this is it. Like I'm not doing this again. Like if I do it again, like I'm done regardless. So I decided to do the donor egg and that is a whole nother process and it's really hard to find donor eggs.

Colleen: 34:13

I can. Yeah.

Jen Miller: 34:15

It's not like donor sperm and there's different ways, and there's ones that are frozen and there's ones that are fresh and state laws are different in how they handle it. It's like a, a mess. And so. I've been doing some donor eggs, but there's like, I think there were like 12 women and everybody had like, wait lists and honestly, I think they felt sorry for me because I got like, kind of bumped, I think, pretty quick to the front of the line. Or they had a new one, a new person come in and they were like, look, we're gonna give first dibs on these, like two people here. Yeah, and I'm like, this is just so weird. And so maybe this explains a little bit more of why at that point I was just kind of like, I don't, I should care more, but I am so this is so far out here at this point of like. I don't have control over exactly what I want and what's gonna happen. And I think I was like so discouraged at that point too. But I was like, fine, whatever. Like this is the donor I have. Like let's just try it and see what happens. Maybe I'll regret that later as my child gets older. But.

Colleen: 35:32

No.

Jen Miller: 35:36

I think all of them through our clinic are anonymous.

Colleen: 35:39

Hmm. Okay.

Jen Miller: 35:40

So that also caused like a thing for me because we had been, we had, I had been told pick a known donor, not known donor like a non-anonymous donor, be a for sperm donor. Because if your child ever wants to after 18, they can try to find them.

Colleen: 35:56

Oh wow.

Jen Miller: 35:57

So I had been doing that and then I decided to just make it both anonymous at that point because I'm like, I.

Colleen: 36:06

Yeah.

Jen Miller: 36:09

You know what I mean? Like,

Cheryl: 36:10

I can't have one, but not the other or, yeah.

Jen Miller: 36:13

right? Like it just got too complicated. And it's not like it was a couple doing this for me, so it's just two wonderful, you know, donors doing good for the world. So went through with that. So one less egg retrieval I guess is. And I was, it was not the best experience like this, you know, young, 20 some year old girl ended up having, again, same thing, one genetically healthy embryo,

Colleen: 36:45

What the hell with these eggs?

Jen Miller: 36:48

I just found like an email I'd written to my doctor and I was like, I'm extremely disappointed. This is a fortune to be spending to get 1

Cheryl: 36:56

One shot.

Jen Miller: 36:56

1 shot out of this again. And I was like, I just am pissed. So anyway, the good news is it worked and luckily for everybody, I, I, my.

Colleen: 37:13

Yeah.

Jen Miller: 37:15

Yeah, so luckily, I mean, the pregnancy, it was scary. I didn't tell anyone, basically besides a few select people this time because I was so worried that I would have another miscarriage, and so I didn't tell anyone I was even pregnant. So I had my, like 20 week an anatomy scan.

Colleen: 37:34

Wow, that's a long time to go. Keeping that a secret.

Jen Miller: 37:38

I mean, people knew, like people close to me, but I was like, I don't trust any of this. Like, I wanna know that it's fine. Like I'm not, you know.

Cheryl: 37:48

Do you feel like you were able to bond with your pregnancy because you were so scared?

Jen Miller: 37:54

Um, I I do to a point, I think I was half in, half out for the beginning be, but I do remember feeling, you know, I never had like a lot of sickness or any of that, which is good. But I also remember feeling good when I would get any of that just as like a reassurance

Colleen: 38:11

Right.

Cheryl: 38:11

Yeah.

Jen Miller: 38:12

things are happening.

Cheryl: 38:13

Yeah. Until you can feel the baby move. It's really comforting to feel like dog shit.

Jen Miller: 38:18

Yeah, like I remember sitting, because now at this point I was in real estate and.

Colleen: 38:27

Yeah.

Cheryl: 38:28

Right.

Colleen: 38:31

But even to think about that as like a, you know, because I've been pregnant and, and, I had, I've had pregnancy loss prior to my first child and you that those first 20 weeks are, are scary but also exciting, right? Like, and you wanna be able to share that, like, and that's an emotional time and. To like not feel like you can really shout that from the rooftops is, that's tough, Jen.

Cheryl: 39:01

And there's so like, it's interesting. So I had the loss prior to my pregnancy, but also my pregnancies were very scary and like I was at risk for stillbirth all the way up till, till delivery, like high risk for stillbirth. I told people immediately, like I went the opposite way and I,'cause our first baby we didn't talk about. And that made me so sad. that baby, that little life. So with the rest of them I was like, even if I'm gonna lose this baby, I want people to love it. Right now. So like I took a very different route, but I totally know the feeling also of like, if I tell people now I'm gonna have to unt tell them if this falls apart and like,

Jen Miller: 39:43

Yeah,

Cheryl: 39:44

who am I comfortable un telling, but.

Jen Miller: 39:47

Well, and I also had just I think I was like six months into real estate too,

Colleen: 39:52

my God. Which is like so brutal just by itself.

Jen Miller: 39:58

uh, yeah. Yeah. It's all, yeah, all great. So I was also scared to, to put that out there in that form too, where I was like, I need to, um, that allowed me to like hit like one year in real estate, I think by the time I told people. So I was a little bit more, more experienced.

Colleen: 40:22

Yeah. And isn't that sucky that we're in a, we live in a society or feel that way where we're like, God, if I tell somebody I'm pregnant, they're not gonna wanna work with me, or they're. Gonna think I'm not serious, or whatever it is. Right,

Jen Miller: 40:36

right. right. Yeah. I just, well, I remember people telling me when I was like, getting a dog in the beginning, they're like, that's a really bad idea. Like, how are you gonna balance it all? And I was like, I'll be fine. It's actually way easier to get a dog and work in real estate than it is as a teacher. Like,

Colleen: 40:53

yeah, that's true. That's very

Jen Miller: 40:56

I was just like, okay, so I think that, and I was like, well, I'm.

Colleen: 41:03

Yeah. Oh my God. Okay, so now Brooks is four and he is amazing and wonderful. And talk to us about, I mean, I am a, my parents split up when I was six, so my mom was a single mom for a really long time. My sister is a single mom, so I know I have secondhand experience of what being a single mom is and what that entails, but like. What, how, how are you doing all the things that you're doing because it's not like you're just some average person. You're also like just so accomplished and so amazing and And do so much.

Jen Miller: 41:43

I think the difference is, I don't know what, I don't know. I don't have never had a help, any help. So if I wanna do something, it's just make it happen. And I, I don't know. It's not easy. It's so stressful in sickness and. And just not having anyone to like, you know, be able to take turns with if he's or any of that. But, you know, work.

Colleen: 42:16

Do you, because we, you know, Susie is like we do, right? We're all in that same group together. And, you know, she loves a system and a process, but have you set up like systems and processes as a parent that allows you to be like a functional single parent? Like what are those things for you?

Jen Miller: 42:34

I, but I have set him up to be a very independent

Colleen: 42:39

Hmm.

Cheryl: 42:40

Oh my God. Come teach me.

Jen Miller: 42:43

I and, and I think a lot of this is innate, some of it, because I remember as a baby, my friend coming over and watching him crawling and throwing balls and crawling and chasing them like over and over, and she's like, does he do that a lot? I'm like, yeah. She's like, that's amazing. Like he's just. She's like, oh my God, oh my God, do you even understand? I was like, no, I don't. Obviously. He is very good and I feel like it's gotten worse lately, but he's

Cheryl: 43:17

he is four. It's the fuck you four,

Colleen: 43:20

Yeah.

Jen Miller: 43:21

yeah, like, I need you, I need you, I want to. But he's pretty good. Like, I'm like, I can just be like, Hey, I'm gonna go get on the Peloton and. I'll be in this room and if you need me to come find me, he's like, okay, I'll play with my trains. Or, you know, whatever. Sometimes he's annoying, comes in, tries to make me like, help him find something. But he's pretty good at being independent. He knows he's getting, like I said, I feel like he's gotten worse in the last few weeks. Like he used to be pretty good. If I'm like on the phone, you wouldn't try to interrupt me the whole time or, pretty good at like just knowing when and where, but you know, just kind of take it as it goes. So,

Colleen: 43:59

think there is like, there's like an unsaid thing or something between like a single mom and their kids, right? Like I think there's like, I. Respect and there's like understanding. Like I look at my sister and my nephew and while she was officially divorced at 18 months, when he was 18 months, she was a single mom the whole time. and now he's almost 16. He'll be 16 in June. And I'm just like, whoa. Like the relationship they have and like the, the, responsibility that he has, but not in a bad way. You know, like sometimes people will be like, well, you put too much responsibility on your kid. Like, let them be a kid. It's like, no. Like he just understood, like he just understands, right? Like he understands that he has to help or he understands that his mom needs something or whatever. And I, that's

Jen Miller: 44:54

Yeah.

Colleen: 44:54

part of it, right?

Jen Miller: 44:57

Yeah. And I think I think just trying to make, and I think obviously thank God our world is so different now than it used to be because I. From day one, like we have a book kind of about what he, how donors helped him, and we read it and it's the story of him and he likes it. And he knows to say like, you know, someone's like, well, where's your dad? He is like, I don't have a dad. I just have a mom. I have a mom and moose. It's no big deal.

Colleen: 45:25

Yeah, it's

Jen Miller: 45:26

at least now, I think at some point. At some point obviously it will become a big deal. Um, so I have to be ready for that, but

Cheryl: 45:34

but it'll never be this big unveiled secret, and I think that that's like. I mean, maybe this is just portrayed in stories and movie, but like that's where you see like the big breakdown is when it's like this giant secret that they find out about rather than like, it's so it's gonna be just the normal thing for them

Jen Miller: 45:53

That's my hope. I mean, I think most kids probably go through a phase of being mad or being upset or the unknown of who their real parents are. Right. Not being able to have that. So

Cheryl: 46:05

Well, I'd like to say that you're his

Colleen: 46:06

Yeah, I.

Jen Miller: 46:08

Yes. You know what I mean? Learning more about who those official

Cheryl: 46:12

biological,

Jen Miller: 46:12

donors.

Cheryl: 46:14

yeah.

Jen Miller: 46:15

You know, it is what it is. But yeah, I mean, overall he's, he is a really, he is a really good kid. He is a sweet kid and he is kind to people and he is, you know, I'm happy with the way out so far.

Colleen: 46:28

Yeah.

Cheryl: 46:29

Well, he was so wanted, like he was so

Colleen: 46:33

I just,

Cheryl: 46:34

and that's incredible. What a gift to

Colleen: 46:35

yeah, like I think about, like, I think about I wanted to be a mom so bad, right? Like that was. I knew that from the start, but it, this is a whole different level of real decision, real effort, real like to know that you were wanted, that you went through all of this so that he could have this beautiful life. It's just amazing.

Jen Miller: 47:03

I think part of it, and it's hard, you have to, you have to let go of what you thought your future would be. Right? Like, did I ever think

Cheryl: 47:12

A.

Jen Miller: 47:12

this was my path? Yeah. Like let it go. Mourn it. This is not the way I thought things would go. You know, it is what it is, but this is the way it's going and this is the way we're moving forward. So.

Cheryl: 47:28

Well for anybody looking for an agent in Denver, I would just like you to take note of Jen Miller's perseverance and ability to do hard fucking things. This girl does not

Colleen: 47:40

for real, what I love about this is I always say like, my kids picked me to be their mom, and picked you.

Jen Miller: 47:52

Don't.

Colleen: 47:54

Well, geez Louise. I can't help it. It's so emotional. Like he, you know, like all the work that you went to, like, find this special dude, like you did it. It's so amazing.

Jen Miller: 48:10

I did it. He's, he's my little buddy,

Colleen: 48:12

Yeah.

Cheryl: 48:14

Well, Jen, your vulnerability

Colleen: 48:17

Oh.

Cheryl: 48:17

has been incredible and I really appreciate you sharing, and I think it's so important that people know I. Stories about this path,

Jen Miller: 48:25

I agree. I think a lot of people think back and go, I should've, I wish I had, I could've, I couldn't. I can't do this. And you can. You can do it. It's just a tough, it's the tough road to take. It's not the easy choice,

Colleen: 48:38

you can do it and be a really successful, amazing businesswoman as well. Like I think that

Jen Miller: 48:46

Right.

Colleen: 48:47

those two things are not mutually exclusive. Like I think sometimes people will have to choose or feel like they have to choose, right? Like I. You know, like you made a decision, right? Like, I'm gonna choose to have a baby. But that didn't mean that you stopped

Jen Miller: 49:03

I am

Colleen: 49:04

your career or your life or whatever, you know? So I think that's something,

Jen Miller: 49:09

No. If anything, it makes me more motivated to show, you know, that you can be a working mom, which I hate saying, um, that you can do, you can be everything, you know. It's not, it's not an option. You know, you don't have to be a great mom or a great businesswoman. You can be. An in between. There's no balance. But you can do both.

Cheryl: 49:35

balance. Yeah. Well, thank you Jen. Where can people follow along your, it's mostly your real estate journey. Brooks makes it into some of them, I think. Does he still?

Jen Miller: 49:45

he does. He does. Yeah. Did a little reel the other day about how I will be the 60-year-old mom at graduation,

Colleen: 49:53

love it.

Jen Miller: 49:55

which he was all, he was like, fine, I'll do it.

Colleen: 49:57

Oh my God, he's so cute. He's so.

Cheryl: 50:00

Okay. Where can.

Jen Miller: 50:02

So I have Instagram@JQMiller15. That's where most things come from, or you can find me on Facebook at, I think it's just Jen Miller. Jen Miller Homes.

Cheryl: 50:14

I love

Colleen: 50:15

Go follow

Cheryl: 50:15

thank you again for

Colleen: 50:16

She's amazing and she has a great Instagram, by the way, like she's killing it on Instagram, so go follow her.

Cheryl: 50:24

I love it. All right, Jen. Thank you