Text us! We know you feel like part of the conversation! We want to hear your input!
This podcast episode explores the concept of imposter syndrome, initially inspired by a TikTok clip of a commencement speech at Smith College by Reshma Sujani.
Cheryl & Colleen discuss how societal perceptions have medicalized this phenomenon, particularly among women, and share insights from a New Yorker article by Leslie Jamison that traces the origin of 'imposter phenomenon.'
They examine the cycle that perpetuates imposter feelings, including the inherent fear of failure and the short-lived relief following success, emphasizing that such feelings are common and not indicative of personal inadequacy.
The episode also delves into family dynamics and societal expectations that contribute to these feelings, suggesting that self-acceptance and redefining personal metrics of success are key to overcoming them.
Furthermore, we share personal experiences and reflections on the importance of authentic connections, self-love, and confronting societal pressures to reshape the narrative around imposter syndrome.
00:00 Redefining Failure and Success: A Fresh Perspective
00:53 Diving Deep into Imposter Syndrome: Origins and Insights
01:38 Exploring the Phenomenon of Imposter Syndrome
09:21 Personal Anecdotes and Professional Experiences with Imposter Syndrome
13:05 Family Dynamics and the Roots of Imposter Feelings
21:27 Embracing Failure as a Learning Process
24:07 Embracing Self-Love and Defining Success
24:44 Navigating Others' Opinions and Self-Doubt
27:48 The Power of Self-Confidence and Authenticity
31:11 Overcoming Perfectionism and the Fear of Starting
33:25 The Illusion of Perfection and the Reality of Self-Perception
38:25 Confronting Imposter Syndrome and Embracing Growth
43:25 Building Confidence and Making Connections
Text us! We know you feel like part of the conversation! We want to hear your input!
This podcast episode explores the concept of imposter syndrome, initially inspired by a TikTok clip of a commencement speech at Smith College by Reshma Sujani.
Cheryl & Colleen discuss how societal perceptions have medicalized this phenomenon, particularly among women, and share insights from a New Yorker article by Leslie Jamison that traces the origin of 'imposter phenomenon.'
They examine the cycle that perpetuates imposter feelings, including the inherent fear of failure and the short-lived relief following success, emphasizing that such feelings are common and not indicative of personal inadequacy.
The episode also delves into family dynamics and societal expectations that contribute to these feelings, suggesting that self-acceptance and redefining personal metrics of success are key to overcoming them.
Furthermore, we share personal experiences and reflections on the importance of authentic connections, self-love, and confronting societal pressures to reshape the narrative around imposter syndrome.
00:00 Redefining Failure and Success: A Fresh Perspective
00:53 Diving Deep into Imposter Syndrome: Origins and Insights
01:38 Exploring the Phenomenon of Imposter Syndrome
09:21 Personal Anecdotes and Professional Experiences with Imposter Syndrome
13:05 Family Dynamics and the Roots of Imposter Feelings
21:27 Embracing Failure as a Learning Process
24:07 Embracing Self-Love and Defining Success
24:44 Navigating Others' Opinions and Self-Doubt
27:48 The Power of Self-Confidence and Authenticity
31:11 Overcoming Perfectionism and the Fear of Starting
33:25 The Illusion of Perfection and the Reality of Self-Perception
38:25 Confronting Imposter Syndrome and Embracing Growth
43:25 Building Confidence and Making Connections
think failure is such a relative term in the same way that success is. We get to decide what that is for us.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Oh my God. Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:don't, I choose not to subscribe to failure as a
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Unsubscribe. I, I unsubscribed to failure. Hi.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:we're doing, we're doing this right, right Colleen?
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah, we're doing this right. I have an interesting discovery that I want to chat with you guys about and with you, Cheryl.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:Let's go girl.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:yeah, I know really no time to waste. So I was on Tik TOK, which everybody just. It's fine. It's totally normal. that's not where I get all my information sources, but I thought that this was really cool. And I wanted to talk today about imposter syndrome because I think that that is something we hear a lot about. And it's also like a term that gets thrown around a lot. And I'm fiddling with my phone here because I'm trying to bring up this tick tock that I. Saved so that I can give you the info on it. Okay, so it was from a graduation speech at Smith College, which is an all women's college and the commencement speech was by Reshma Sujani and she talks about imposter syndrome and I was listening to this and I was I had this like idea of what imposter syndrome was. And the more like I listened to this commencement speech and it's like, it's on Tik TOK, it's everywhere. So just Google it or Tik TOK it or whatever.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:I'll,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:But
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:Try to remember to put
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah. Yeah. It, it really, Okay. So then she's talked about an article that was in the New Yorker in 2023 by a woman named, I'm going to give it to you so that I'm giving you all the correct info where to go also to put this in this. Listen, I was super prepared and then now it's all falling apart. But it's really great.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:really prepared, I can vouch for that.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Okay. So it was an article in February 6 of 2023. It was written by Leslie Jamison and she kind of tracked down the woman and women who created this idea about, they call it imposter phenomenon. Versus syndrome, and one of the things that came up in that commencement speech was that somehow we've turned society has turned this into a syndrome, making it like more of a medical thing or something that's like wrong with you versus a phenomenon that just happens and it gets.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:and happening to everybody.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Right, right. And
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:not, you're not sick.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:you're not sick. Right. And it specifically gets targeted towards women. Like, that's the phenomena is that this imposter feeling came about from a study that was done by these 2 women about. Basically, like, they were in college and they were, like, having all these feelings about, like, not feeling good enough or not feeling like feeling like they were faking it or feeling like somehow they were. Skating by not based on skill, but just based on like other things, like maybe somebody made a mistake on my test and that's how I got through. Or maybe it was cause I was just charming instead of smart. And it was really interesting and I just felt like it was something that I wanted to talk about and I wanted to talk about with you and, and with our listeners. Because is something that comes up so frequently, especially in the conversations about entrepreneurship, about not feeling good enough or not feeling like you're like, somehow you're going to be found out that you're a fraud or a fake or something. Anyway, these women went on to do this study of like. Over 150 high achieving women who all expressed this feeling. And one of the things that came up that I thought was interesting and, and we can chat about it, but I'm just like, exploding with all of this because I was just so interested about it. And I took. Like screenshots. The women's last names who, who did this study is Klantz and Iams. And they talk about the cycle that produces these imposter feelings. And so here's how it goes. It goes, it's a sense of impending failure. So like you just feel like you can't do it. You're going to fail. That inspires frenzied hard work and a short lived gratification when failure is stayed off, like. Not even like you're, you're successful. You're just like, Oh my God, at least I didn't fail quickly followed by the return of the old conviction that failure is eminent. So it's this idea that I see this in a lot of women and a lot of my friends where it's like, you feel like you're going to fail, so you work so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so hard. And study and do all like way above and beyond just, and then when you don't fail or when you succeed, it's not a real success feeling. It's a feeling of like, Ooh, I skated by again,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:Yeah, dodged a bullet,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:the dodge the ball.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:like, Oh, I won.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:It was, I dodged a bullet.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah. And it was like dodge the ball. And that this, and then there's this idea that it says in this article that some women adopt a kind of magical thinking about their pessimism. And I've seen this in, in a lot of. So, like, daring to believe in success would actually doom them to failure. So failure must be anticipated instead. So basically the typical case hides their own opinions, fearing that they will feel like be seen as stupid. They might seek approval from a mentor, but then believe it has to be. You know, only been secured because of charm or appeal. She may hate herself for even needing this validation, taking the need itself as proof of her phoniness. And so I was listening to this commencement speech and then I was reading this article and I was just like, I think I had a misunderstanding and maybe other people did of what imposter syndrome was like, I kind of, for myself felt like imposter syndrome was this like kind of fake it to make it feeling
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:Mm hmm.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:versus
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:Do I actually belong in this room, or how am I here?
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:yeah. Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:Mm
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:which it kind of is, but also this idea of like the, the extreme frenziedness of like preparing for something I thought was so, so interesting.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:Hmm.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:And in a different experience than I anticipated, what imposter phenomena because imposter syndrome, like, really isn't a thing was and. And then I started thinking about like how we start to peg ourselves as having imposter syndrome. And I was like, I didn't, I'm sure I've said that about myself, but I don't have that, like that phenomena of like the frenziedness, the frenzy preparing and whatever, like, that's not a thing. But but I know women that do for sure. Anyway, I mean, like, I just wanted to chat about this cause I just thought it was so interesting. And then the other facet to that, which happens in this commencement speech is that like, this was a syndrome, you know, imposter syndrome is used again to kind of make women feel less than and imposed on women to make them feel less than In comparison to men and that they are, you know, we're now saying this all over the place because it's a way, again, for women to be like, kind of suppressed in society about these feelings of inadequacy, but I don't know, there's a lot to unpack, but I was like, Oh my God, we have to talk about this because. I, I know that there are listeners that have these feelings and, and we've talked to many women already who, but who've talked about feeling like an imposter and I don't know. What do you think?
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:back up. I have a pretty succinct little definition of imposter syndrome here.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Okay.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:syndrome is that uncomfortable feeling you experience when you think you're unqualified or incompetent. You might look around and assume everyone knows what they're doing except for you. And if you achieve something good, you chalk your accomplishments up to good luck.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:a succinct definition of it. The first time I experienced imposter syndrome, maybe not the first, but my first like real professional, like spot where I remember it, I was in my early mid twenties and my job was I was selling commercial insurance, life insurance, our clients to estate planning attorneys. and I would sit in these rooms with 50 something year old men that own multi million dollar businesses because that's who the insurance person talks to as the business owner,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Mm hmm.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:I'm protecting. And I remember feeling like, why would they listen to me? Like, but they did.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:they did listen to me and I did have an expertise that they didn't have. And, and as I've gotten older and I guess wiser in this, I've said this to a million people. I'll be in a, not anymore because now I'm doing the real estate, but like I'd be in a room with this man that's like run this business and I've been so successful. And he's like, well, I don't know anything about that. And I'm like, that's cool. I don't know anything about what you do. Like this is my lane. That's your lane. Yeah. And like, you're paying me to be a professional here. And I mean, it's the same in real estate. I just was hearing somebody say the other day in our office meeting, we're discussing this new commission scenarios that we're, we're going to be potentially running into. And a doctor was challenging the agent about why should she make as much as he's making? Cause he went to medical school. And I mean, to me, the response was obvious. Because I'm fucking fantastic at what I do. the, I'm the best at what I do, so I'm gonna earn a really solid living doing it, because I'm really good at it.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:yeah,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:like, I don't care what your specialty is, or what your education is, like, we all have a lane, we all have a superpower, you guys know I feel that way about
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:So I'm like imposter syndrome, meh, go away. Like I don't have it, but I do watch many, many people in my life have it. You know where I do have it a lot? It's that feeling like when are the grownups going to show up? Like I'm parenting and running a household and like,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:like I'm in charge and I constantly am like, when are the grownups getting
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:yeah,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:That's where I feel really unqualified and incompetent, like am I making this choice for this family?
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:yeah. Uh,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:to this position?
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah. I I, I feel like that a lot. I think sometimes I feel like I'm stuck in some sort of younger age, like, where I'm like, oh, I am, I am the adult. I had that weird realization at the airport this week, uh, this week when I was traveling. This is a sidebar, but it was like, I saw all these young parents with toddlers and like babies. I'm like, Oh yeah, I know that. I'm just like that. And then I was like, Oh, actually, no, you're an old parent now. You're
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:bit farther removed.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah. I'm like, I felt like I was like, yeah, I'm in it with them. I know what that's like. And then I was looking at them and they looked so young. I mean, compared to me or just like, and not compared to me because I look great for my age, by the way. But like, Oh my God, these people are like in their early thirties, maybe their late twenties and they've got like babies and infants. And I am not that anymore. So that was a different realization. But I do feel that sometimes the other thing I wanted, like, that I think plays into this and it'd be really interesting to see how you feel about this is it says in their original paper about this imposter phenomena, it identified 2 distinct family patterns that gave rise to imposter feelings. For women, either women had a sibling who had been identified as the smart one. So like they weren't the smart one, they had a sibling that was identified as the smart one, or else they themselves has had been identified as superior in every way. Intellect, personality, appearance, and talent. So the pair, the the, the researchers kind of theorized that women in the first group, the ones who had a smarter sibling. We're driven to find validation that they didn't get at home, so they're constantly looking for validation because at home, they weren't smart enough. They weren't good enough. They weren't the best. And then they doubt that validation, even when it comes and then the 2nd group encountered a disconnect between their parents. Unrealistic faith in their capabilities. And their experience like failing in life. Right. So like their parents. Like, you're the best. You're so great. You're, you're good at everything that you do. And so there was this expectation that they had that they would never fail. And then when they did fail in life, there was like a weird juxtaposition between those two things. Both of those created this like feeling of impo of being an imposter. And I just thought that that was really. Interesting that it can be even tracked way back into like how your parents are categorizing you or like speaking to you or talking to you. And then as this article goes on, which is, it's a good article. It talks a lot about the mother daughter relationship and how those feelings work into this. And I know you, Cheryl, like you've talked a lot about how Like your parents were always like, yeah, you're, you're amazing. You're a genius. You're so smart. Like, and I don't know that I was, I did, I did feel like I had, my sister is very, very smart and my parents are very, very smart. I am also very, very smart, but I always felt inadequate to their genius, like literal genius. And so it's an interesting, it's interesting to think about those things. And even as a parent, like. It struck me as like, oh, shit, like, I don't want to do this to my kids. Like, you know, how do, how do we start working on this now?
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:I think normalizing failure at home,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:yeah,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:about the hard things So they they see it all along but like, oh life isn't just always easy and perfect And mom doesn't get everything right the first time I think that's really big. So yes, my especially my dad was like, Cheryl, you're so smart. You're so capable. You're such a good athlete. You're so beautiful. And it gave me kind of that what we call unrealistic. No, what do we call it?
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Extreme confidence.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:the confidence, the extreme confidence. And then like, thinking maybe I was too old the first time I failed. Like, I don't like, there wasn't a lot of failure in my youth. I also don't really buy into failure. And we've talked a little bit about that too. But like, as long as you keep moving and you keep trying and you pivot and I don't really like, well, how could I possibly fail? What would that even look like? What would that be like? This didn't work. Okay. Cause then we pivot and we problem solve. So I really, I don't think I have imposter syndrome, not since my, like I said, in my twenties,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah. Yeah. I think it,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:is suffering from it at the moment. And that's hard to watch because I believe in him
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:yeah. And this,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:and I know that he's qualified and belongs where he is.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:and one of the things they talk about in, in in this article is that, and in the study is that. Success is not a cure, like, no matter how much you achieve or no matter how much success that you get, that does not, that is not a quote unquote cure for this phenomenon that's happening. And it, it's so sad to think that there are these like, really, really, really amazing capable women who are out there every single day, like. Achieving these amazing things, but feeling like somehow they're not good enough. Or, I mean, there was a quote that even like Maya Angelou said, like, you know, every time she sat down to write, she would feel like, Oh, they're going to find out that I'm a fraud. This is the time where they're going to find out that I'm a fraud. And I'm like, geez, like some of the brightest, most beautiful minds in our history, like also feel that way. And. It's crazy.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:I'm thinking why one of the reasons maybe I don't have this imposter syndrome is I, and you probably do this too, but like I engage in such authentic conversations with people that are like not surface level. Like I'm talking to people all day every day that are all just like see everybody's just struggling and grinding and like everybody's just doing the best they can and I think that that helps a lot because as we've talked about before, we're now at the age where like those C level executives are our friends and our peers and our colleagues and the doctors, the people of authority, you know, like those are, we're on that level
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:I think that like seeing that and then knowing like behind the scenes, like that person is also struggling.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:I think it makes it like, well, I'm not an imposter. I'm just, I'm just normal. And that was the really important thing that I took from that commencement speech that you shared was like, it's not a syndrome. It's a natural feeling. It's a natural phenomenon. It's, it's going to come and go. And it's, it's normal because what she compared it to this was funny. So there was what she called the,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Oh, the bicycle face thing.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:the bicycle face. So when bikes became like popular in the early 1900s and women were riding them, they would be flushed. Their face would be flushed when they would finish and their jaw might be clenched while they're working really hard. And they termed it bike face as like, as if it was something wrong. Like it became like a medical thing. And. But you and I and everybody here knows there's nothing wrong with you. That is a natural phenomenon. That's the reaction your body is going to have when you're exerting effort. And so this imposter, imposter syndrome or phenomenon is the same thing. It's, there's not something wrong with you for feeling it. It is a normal phenomenon that comes when you are pushing and climbing and, you know, reaching outside of your comfort zone, which is how we grow.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:don't know about you, but I'm pretty committed to that growth.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah. And I think you kind of hit the nail on the head when you talk about connection and like really having authentic connections and conversations with people. And, you know, we both have our inspire her groups and we try, and that's what we're doing in those groups is having an, you know, in our CMC group. And I was just, uh, you know, I'm now have in a coaching group and whatever, like the more that we're having these really authentic. Connections with other women, business owners or other women or other people. Like you really find out. And we, we talked about it with, with so many people about like peeking behind the curtain. Like everybody's got a behind the curtain, everybody's got in front of the curtain and then everybody's got a behind the curtain of, you know, struggle and and disappointment and failure. But, like you said, like, failure is like. It's just a way of learning. It's just a process of learning.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:think failure is such a relative term in the same way that success is. We get to decide what that is for us.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Oh my God. Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:don't, I choose not to subscribe to failure as a
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Unsubscribe. I, I unsubscribed to failure. It's funny.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:I don't need that in my echo chamber.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah. You know, it's interesting. My mom at one point she had said to me, she's like, I just feel like a failure. I don't feel like I achieved anything in my life. And I was like, how dare you? Like I said, first of all, you raised, You know, like you birthed and helped raise two really amazing, capable daughters who are doing amazing, amazing things. And that is a success. Like that's a success and you have started businesses and run businesses and you have to, you know, but there, but that idea of failure or never being good enough or never being enough or never feeling authentic or never feeling real. It cuts so deep. That like, you just can't, it's so hard for somebody to see the success that they're having or, and, or figuring out who's defined that idea of success for you. Like, I, I'm still kind of like, well, what, what would be success? You know, if this isn't
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:Right.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:what would be, and I think,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:Right.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:and that might be a really important part of like working through this imposter phenomena, like define what success looks like so that like, you can work towards achieving it. Like we, you know, in our vision to reality, talk a lot about like setting very specific goals with actionable steps, and those are ways to kind of tick the markers of like. Okay, if I do this and I do this and I do this, then that helps me get to what I've already decided success can be. And maybe that's a way to help figure out how you measure success or figure out meeting those goals. I don't know.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:Here's what I think. one will ever feel like they are a success until they have found a way to, like, love themselves.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:That's 100 percent true.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:Like
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:100%.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:don't, if you, if you don't do the work to like accept yourself and love yourself for who you are, I don't think there is any of success that will make you feel successful. Like
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:can happen until you're comfortable with who you are. Which is probably why I I'm fine. I'm comfortable with who I am. fine. Like
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:can, I could lose a deal tomorrow or it could turn out that I'm the worst realtor ever or nobody like where zero follows on the podcast and like, okay, well that was a bummer. And I'm, I'm fine. I
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Right.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:I'm still a success. life is still, you know, we have a roof over our head. We have a loving family. My kids feel safe and secure. And so maybe those are my metrics
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah. Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:It's just, but I wouldn't ever feel like I'm enough if I didn't appreciate and love myself.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah. And I think also, In like congruent with that is, you know, how you allow other people to make you feel like, and how you let other people define success for you. Right? Because I read something one time that was like, you can be going along with your life thinking that you're doing great. Right? But then somebody says, wait a minute, you didn't go to college. Oh, you're a failure, right? And that's somebody else's opinion of you where, where, where you're like, I'm just chugging along doing the thing. Like, everything's great. And then somebody else makes you feel bad about something or imposes this idea that somehow you're wrong or bad based on their own metrics. Right? And. You have to allow that person to make you feel that way. Right. It's, it's hard to not, but like when somebody else is trying to impose their ideas of what success or happiness or life or whatever, what's wrong and right is on you, that's when you start to, to kind of doubt yourself and that's where you have to be really strong in your, in your knowingness and in your foundation and your love for yourself, right. Where you can. You know, somebody could say that, like, say I didn't go to college or somebody said that to me, I could easily be like, okay, well, whatever. Bye. Like bat that away. Or that could really cut me to my core because, uh,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:it did, it would be because it was something you were already feeling insecure about. But if, if, if somebody was like, you don't eat an avocado every morning for breakfast,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:yeah,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:And you're like, so,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:know what I mean, like, like, it doesn't matter to me because I don't care about that.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Right. Right. And you know, maybe,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:not having avocado every day for breakfast doesn't make me a terrible person, you know, like, I'm fine.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:and
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:you were like already insecure about the way you're eating, and you feel like a failure around the way you're eating already,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:yeah,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:for whatever, you know, you doubt yourself there for whatever reason, then that would be really cutting.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:yeah, that's so true. And it's, and it's interesting to make those like kind of. Absurd comparisons, right? Like if, and maybe that's an interesting way to kind of like put things in perspective when, when weird people start saying weird things to you, like, imagine if they said that to you, imagine if they said, well, you're, you're a terrible person because you don't eat avocado every morning. And they've been like, okay, well, that's so lame. It's absurd.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:because you don't believe that you don't, but if you believe it about yourself, then, then that would be cutting.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:where it's like, when we have the confidence in ourself and the love for ourselves, we can accept some feedback and you know, use what's useful and forget what's not. Yeah, but if you have the confidence in yourself to begin with, or the self admiration, then that's not, it's just not going to bother you.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah. Let me ask you about this. Like I, good, bad, or indifferent have been for myself have been a bit big advocate of like fake it till you make it. Right. For me, that has worked really well. Like it, it's not like a fake it, but it's kind of like a fake it, learn, blah, blah, keep going, go on there. But like, I never walk into a room feeling. You know, as many times I've changed my career, I've never walked into a room and not felt confident about my own capabilities, but. You know, there's definitely times where, like, when we 1st started my construction business, I didn't know all the electrical codes. Right like, so when I would go and meet with inspectors, we would be doing, like, the electrical check off. I would ask them a lot of questions, but I would also like. You know, fake that I kind of knew what was going on. Right. But mentally I'm taking so many notes. Like I didn't show up with lack of confidence. I didn't show up being like, I don't know how to do any of this. Like help me. I don't know. I mean, I, I think that that is like, Maybe it's wrong. I don't know, but it has been something that has been really helpful to me in my life and my career is to like show up, learn as I go ask questions and, and keep going until you are the expert. Right. And I think that that's
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:part of that is like, just experiential learning, but being able to be an experiential learner. Like, if I sat down and tried to read 50 pages of electrical code, I don't know that that would have been as effective as me going to every single inspection and the inspector being like, no, you know, you can't have all of these breakers in this 200 amp breaker, you know, blah, blah, blah, or you can't double whatever.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:And that's that thing where you need to be in your lane and they need to be in theirs. You don't need to be the expert on the electrical code. That is the inspector's job.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Right.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:needs to have all of those memorized. You are running a business that's multifaceted. You need to know enough to be dangerous about electrical, about plumbing, about drywall, about, you know, texture on the wall. Like you, you only need to know enough to be dangerous. When I hear fake it till you make it, to me, it's, like show up even when you don't feel like it.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yes. Yes.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:that's what fake it till you make it means to me is like just come with a smiling face and eventually you'll probably actually the smile will be genuine at some point if you just like keep showing up
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:what fake it till you make it means to me and a little bit of like yeah i'm gonna come in just like Act like I belong in this room I do
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:because you do.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:and so you and so do you we all belong in the room if you would like to have a seat at that table then you deserve a fucking seat at that table and like learn don't show up and close minded and not willing to learn and grow but if you're willing to learn and grow like what you're describing is how you just show up with a good attitude ready to learn and like be taking notes and like continue to learn as you go. That's, that's life.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:of us were born knowing everything.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:Even the most successful is going to have to learn Like we can only know so much.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:But I think there is a, I think, sorry, I think there are a large group of women in particular who feel like they need to know everything before they can start, like, they need to study and know everything about whatever their field is before they can start. And I think that that's something that differentiates you and I from a lot of women. And even men, but like,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:I'm even like, look at Rachel and I, and we did this poll on our Instagram. Like Rachel is like, am done is better than perfect. And Rachel is. paralyzed by perfection. And I mean that like we've been the best balance for each other because of that. Cause she makes me slow down and I make her speed up.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:yeah,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:I mean, that's just, it's different personality types. I think that some people will always tend to be. Paralyzed by perfection.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:yeah. How do they, how do we help them though? Like, how do we help them not be like, I, my best friend is kind of like this and she started her own business and it took her a long time to kind of get going where I'm, I was from the outside looking in and going like, It's like literally so easy for you to just start, like, just, just start,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:Just start, just start.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:start and she's like, but I got to do this and you got to do this. I got to do this. I got to set up my legal. I got to set up my, and I get it. Like you've got to do all those things, but like, you don't need to take 75 days to come up with a logo, you know what I mean? Or like,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:Right,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:you know, or like,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:That, so like, I think, like reminding people that things can be changed. And and also reminding, like, so, think how I've helped Rachel with this and maybe she could come speak to it at some point would be just like continual encouragement. then also showing them, like, okay, look, maybe I got this wrong, but like, what, so look what, like nothing bad happened because I got it wrong. You know, there are things that should be perfect. And I agree, but like that Instagram post, you don't need to spend three hours, like worrying that it's not going to, the correct aesthetic. Like who cares? People are
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:yeah,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:for six seconds. No one has an attention span. I think the other thing is remembering that, like if you think other people are thinking about you, you're wrong. They're just thinking about themselves.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:they're just thinking about themselves.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:Like, how important you must be if you, like, you must think you're very important if you think that people care because they don't, they don't, everybody's just, literally everybody's just surviving. And I had a manager tell me that in my twenties when I was like very concerned about how something was affecting my maybe reputation or how I looked and he was like, Oh, you think they're thinking about you? They're not. They don't care about you.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:They don't care about you.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:thinking about, they're, they're thinking about that they forgot to start the dishwasher this morning, or did I leave my curling iron on, or, like, I fought with my husband this morning, and, you know, like, they're not thinking about you. They're thinking about that whole mental list we each have going on in our head. Everybody else is doing it, too. Everybody else.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:And I would also add to that, like they're looking at you through the lens that they have the capacity to look at you through, right?
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:Right. Nobody sees you like you see you. You see the worst version of you. Everybody. We all do.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Actually, I see the best
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:see
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:version of me and maybe it's delusional.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:do, too. Right. Right. I know. I mean, like, I'm the only one that sees my new sunspot. No one else has seen that. And if they do see it, they don't give a
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:No one cares.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:bothering them in the way it's bothering me.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Right.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:And it's really not bothering me that much. You guys. The doctor told me she would burn it off and I said, no, if it's not cancer, just leave it. I don't
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:fucking earned these sunspots
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:my best life.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah. It was an interesting realization. I had this, you know, we, I went to this business coaching retreat last week and it was amazing and I was like, I'm, I'm so awesome. I'm feeling so great. I'm doing so good. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I saw some pictures and I was like, Oh, I'm so cute. Blah, blah, blah. And then I saw some pictures and I was like, Oh, yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:feeling.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Who's that troll? Because that's not me. Who did that to me? And I was talking to my personal trainer this morning about it. I was like, I, and we've talked about this before. Like, I think that maybe I have like reverse body dysmorphia. I think I look better than I actually do, you know, or whatever. But You know, it was interesting, you know, talk about feeling like an imposter where I'm out there like thinking like, I'm just like, so cute. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. And then like, you see, like, maybe what other people see, or maybe they don't see that, but maybe because of the bad angle or maybe because of the weird, whatever, lighting or whatever. I was like, Oh, Hmm.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:People don't see
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Interesting perspective.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:It is but But you're showing up with your energy and your confidence and your glow.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:that's what people see. They, they, they don't remember what you look like. They remember how you make them feel
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:And that's,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:make them feel excited and confident. And that is why like outwardly, okay. Yeah. Like who cares what I look like. is what I look like and showing up anyways, and I'm bringing an impact to the world anyways. And I'm making people feel good about themselves and confident. And that's, that's what they remember. That's, and you know that from looking at somebody else who like might not be stereotypically attractive person, but they make you feel really good.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:then they suddenly become like, or they're very funny and they suddenly become very evil. You see these that handsome men
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Oh my God. All the time.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:and it's they're funny and they make
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:They're nice.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:good.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah. Or they're like, have a good personality.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:about that. I keep thinking of something. Like kind of a good example of like how you, you just never know what's going on in someone else's life. And so when we are looking at somebody, we have them on a pedestal and we feel like that's the level we should be rising to. I think a really good way to look at that is like, How often do you see a marriage that you were like, Oh, there's so everything. And then they split. And we're like, Whoa, that is shocking.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:It's because you don't see what's going on behind closed doors. And that's happening. Like that that's like bringing home 10 million a month that you're like, whoa, like you're not seeing what's happening behind the screen and what, what demons they're overcoming, what challenges they're overcoming behind the scene, we're all going through something. And I feel like just like that marriage example is a good one where you're like, you've got this. This couple up on a pedestal and then all of a sudden like they've separated and you're like, whoa, that's the same the board. Like, you don't know what's happening in my brain. I don't know what's happening in your brain, their brain, you know, we're, we're all fighting our own little battles.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Right. Which is when you put it in that perspective, I mean, imposter syndrome is, it's just been a little bit, I don't want to say silly. Cause I don't want to, you know, diminish anybody's feelings, but it's like. Everybody has, you can feel so confident in one thing, but then also feel like you're failing or, you know, whatever in some other part of your life. So like, again, back to that connection idea is like, if we're really seeing everything about each other, which we're not always, but when you can, it allows you to kind of realize that like, This idea of being an imposter, this idea of not being good enough or whatever, it really doesn't matter because everybody is kind of feeling that way in some respect or some aspect of their life where, you know, you might be, we might be killing it in our business. Right. But in some ways we feel like imposters as a parent, right? Where we're like, Oh, I am in,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:me.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:I'm in charge of these people. What the hell am I doing? Or you're an amazing parent. Right. But you feel like you're an imposter at your job and you're just like, not really knowing what you're doing, or like, you're not, you should be doing more, should know more something, but everybody, like, to the point of that commencement speech is like, everybody has those feelings. So, like, well, we've now put a late
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:that you're going to experience at some point in your life.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:and now we put a label on it and somehow made it this, like, you know, syndrome, a disease, something that's wrong. Inherently, when you call something a syndrome, it. It makes it bad, right? Or makes it like there's something wrong where, you know, this phenomenon was both was kind of discovered or labeled in some way, more so to make women feel like. Listen to y'all. A lot of us have got this feeling. It was supposed to kind of, I think, make it more relatable and common. And now we've kind of made it into this other thing, right? This like negative, negative connotation of somehow I've got imposter syndrome and I'm bad and I'm sad and I'm, we can't do it and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, those are also, some of those are also just like human emotions. Like some of those are just, yeah, Normal, like human emotions that you're feeling, like, especially when you're pushing yourself to try something new, you know, like I had a really big listing last year and I guess there were definitely times where I was like, Oh, this, this is, I've never done this before. You know, like this is four times the price point that I'm usually working in. And I felt nervous about that at times, but that didn't mean that I wasn't capable of doing it. It didn't mean it was any different than a normal transit than a normal transaction. It did mean that there were some different intricacies to that. But and I was working on the other side, the agent was like much older. It had been doing this for like 35 years and there was definitely times where he wanted to make me feel like I was less like as I'm touring, you know, as I'm showing the house, he was like, well, how long have you been doing this, which we know in our industry is like the way for agents who's been doing this a long time to make you feel like you don't know what you're doing. And I was just like, why do you care? Like,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:right.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:why is that any of your business at all? But those are just normal feelings, especially when you are trying to achieve something that's hard or like, A reach for you or something.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:exact experience. So if, if you were feeling insecure about how long you've been in business,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:would have been a very cutting dig.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:if you were like, I have done a zillion things that qualified me to be in this industry. And like, My skill set is so broad because of what I've done prior to this and I
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah. Yeah.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:that comment would like roll off your back,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah. Yeah. And for me, it kind of fell somewhere in between where I knew exactly what he was trying to do because he was doing it in front of his clients, which was a little bit like, okay, but also I was just kind of like, okay, but also like I have this listing and you don't, so goodbye. So somebody, somebody thought I was qualified enough to, to do that.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:Right.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:so yeah. It's interesting when you start to see that, like, when you start to see the people who are, who want to try to make you less or who want you to feed into those feelings that they think you might have also right? Like, he clearly wanted to, like, push me a little bit to see,
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:Mm hmm.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:to see how strong you are.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:establish dominance
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Yeah, yeah, so it was, it's just an interesting experience, but I mean, again, to your point, it's like, it starts, it starts with you, it starts with your confidence in yourself and your love for yourself and, and you know, how we're treating and talking to ourselves and how we're handling the things that come up, you know, and like working through them and addressing them and, you know, And then making really good connections with people. Like that's, that was a big theme of this business retreat that I was on. Is that like connections make conversions, right?
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:Mm
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:that's how you can build your business, but it also just allows you to understand and allows other people to see you and for you to see other people and to see the true, the truth behind it all.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_085408:right? Everybody's just everybody's just climbing the hill Everybody's just overcoming the next thing. We're all doing it. Nobody is better or worse than anybody else and And I'm going to leave us on this. You're all really freaking worthy of loving yourself of feeling confident and of knowing that you own your superpower and you're doing a great job because you're doing it right. Right, Colleen? Okay. Thanks for coming today, you guys. We'll see you soon.
colleen_1_04-15-2024_115408:Bye.