Navigating Kin Keeping: A Modern Exploration

!SPOILER ALERT!: Santa and Easter Bunny talk

Kin Keeping and Mental Load: The Invisible Work of Family Management

In this episode, the hosts dive into the often overlooked mental and emotional labor associated with kin keeping, the responsibility for maintaining and enhancing family ties. They discuss personal experiences with balancing family relationships, the role of gender in kin keeping, and the impact on mental health. The conversation unfolds around topics like the complexities of holiday planning, the balance of cultural traditions, and the importance of communication within partnerships. Through humorous anecdotes and real-life challenges, they explore how to share the burden of kin keeping in a more equitable way.

00:00 The Struggle for Control
01:24 Parenting Challenges and Constipation
04:04 Sleep Deprivation and Family Loss
06:26 The Concept of Kin Keeping
12:17 Balancing Family Traditions and Responsibilities
22:43 Grandparents Overstepping Boundaries
26:38 The Struggle for Recognition
27:36 Holiday Credit Wars
30:17 Family Tree Confusion
33:58 Balancing Parenting Expectations
37:52 Gift-Giving Dilemmas
43:21 Reflecting on Childhood and Parenting
47:37 The Importance of Shared Responsibilities
52:31 Concluding Thoughts and Humor

- Kin Keeping
- Family Dynamics
- Parenting Challenges
- Mental Load
- Emotional Labor
- Family Traditions
- Modern Parenting
- Gender Roles
- Holiday Stress
- Work-Life Balance
- Family Relationships
- In-Laws
- Parenting Stories
- Emotional Health
- Cultural Traditions
- Spousal Communication
- Parenting Podcast
- Family Expectations
- Mental Health
- Women’s Work

Transcript

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 0:00

I said to my best friend the other day, like sometimes I just wish, you know, David would like take control of things. And she was like, no, you don't. I was like, I was like, rude. She's like, you want to be in charge, Colleen. You've always wanted to be in charge. I was like, yeah, but I would like to be a little bit less in charge of some things. And she was like, do you, I was like,

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 0:21

like, to be in charge of making him in charge of like three

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 0:24

Yeah. Like I would like to be in charge. Yeah, exactly. I would like to be in charge of making him in charge of these things that I don't have to think about, but I also want him to report back to me on them

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 0:34

And I'd like him to do them exactly how I would like them done, please. Hey, everybody, we're doing this right, right?

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 1:15

I love this new voice you're doing in the beginning, this like sultry voice you're doing. I think we're, we're doing it right. But also sometimes Cheryl, you want to tell us about what happened?

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 1:29

Yeah. Lemme tell you guys how I did it really wrong. Hi, I'm Cheryl. I'm the mom of three children. I should be a pro by now. However, I missed constipation in my youngest child. I took her to the doctor to her for an X-ray and somehow did not know that my child was constipated for a week. How. Shouldn't I know that? Shouldn't that be like the easy one?

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 1:50

I don't think so. I don't think, I don't think you're ever a pro when it comes to being a parent. I've said this many times. Maybe I've never said this to you, but like each kid is so different. There's, there are some things that cross over, but like, you just never know. And, and every day you wake up, you're parenting your kid for the first time, because every single day they're different and it's just like crazy. It's, it's insane. And no, none of the kids are the same, which is. Bullshit, to be honest. Like, why aren't they just more, more, it's unfair. Why aren't they more similar? But I'm glad that's all it was though.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 2:32

Yeah. So for anyone who didn't listen, or maybe I didn't elaborate as, as, on the podcast, as much as I did to just Colleen and, and Susie, everybody knows Susie, friend of the pod I was a hot freaking mess last week because we just were not sleeping. It was a Saturday to a Thursday, Thursday of no sleep because it was literally hours and hours and hours every night of June screaming and writhing in pain in bed because her tummy hurt. And we're like, what the hell? At first I thought I poisoned her, like overdosed her on magnesium because I'd started giving her magnesium because she was having like the leg pains. And I thought, Oh, growing pains, magnesium. Okay. This is going to, yeah. I thought, Oh, I'm woo woo. Let's go. I'm going to be a good

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 3:16

The magnesium should have helped her poop though, too. Right.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 3:20

know, I know this was all really interesting and now hindsight, probably the magnesium was not related at all to this. So we're reintroducing half dose of magnesium back into her world. Also because she's a crackhead at bedtime, ladies and gentlemen, and I need her to go to bed a little easier for her sisters because they're all in one room. So we're giving her a half, half gummy of the magnesium to start just make my life just so I don't worry. But anyhow yeah, she went on for a whole week of just. It was hours and hours and hours every night of just crying and crying and crying that her tummy hurt and it was so hard to see her in pain and exhausting to be up for hours on end like that and then be still needing to function. And then we had some very traumatic news in our family with the sudden loss of. One of our beloved uncles on Alex's side, much too young to, to die. I'm traveling to the Midwest next, this week and now I'll miss the service here for our uncle. It was just like

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 4:22

Oh my God.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 4:23

one thing after another, after another, and and exhausted. Just, we were just exhausted. So we finally took June to the doctor when I was like at a breaking point and ended up taking her in for x rays. Like not really get a firm diagnosis that she was constipated, but an assumption on the doctor's point that she was constipated. And I'm like, Ooh. And I was like, they wanted me to like, go all in on laxatives for her, which I didn't feel comfortable with since the x ray didn't show like, uh, A ton of backed up stool. Sorry, everybody. Hope you're not drinking your morning coffee or eating your breakfast while we do this.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 4:58

it's fine.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 4:59

And so I really didn't believe them, but we did the laxatives and she has been going to the bathroom since and she's been sleeping since. So I think they were right. Maybe there was just something in there that was not moving. And now it's moved. So we're sleeping again. And

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 5:20

my sister when she had my nephew Zephyr, like, and she was a single mom for a lot of all the whole time basically. And she was like, sleep deprivation is literally a form of like military torture. So like, this is insane that we're expecting people, moms, parents to like function at high levels while being you know, like. while parenting. So it's so

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 5:47

well, and Alex and I do this very wrong because we do not like divide and conquer. We suffer together. And then we both end up just really overtired. And that is so stupid. It is so stupid. We've done this our entire parenting journey. We have never divided and conquered. I don't know why we don't even think about it until we're like over the hump. And then we're like, why did we do that? Why don't one of us just go sleep in the other room and like take turns? Why do we both just go through extreme sleep deprivation? This is so dumb.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 6:16

in it.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 6:17

We are who we are.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 6:19

Okay.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 6:20

we really, like, love each other we're gonna die together here.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 6:24

oh my God. Okay, so this is kind of related in some ways to what we're gonna chat about today. And this was actually a topic that was brought to our attention by one of our listeners and one of our super fans Marianne Beyer, Bayer. At a, who is a compass agent who's been listening, I think the whole time are from the beginning.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 6:47

Love those. Thank you.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 6:48

she's such a sweetheart. And she covers Westchester County out of New York and Utah,

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 6:54

City, Utah. Yeah,

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 6:55

Utah. So

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 6:56

dual licensed. Shout out Mary Ann.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 6:59

Okay. So what did she bring to us? What did she want? What did she think we should chat about?

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 7:03

Kinkeeping. So if you've

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 7:05

keeping. I hadn't had, I hadn't heard about this

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 7:08

buzzword. The labor involved in maintaining and enhancing family ties, including organizing social occasions, remembering birthdays, sending gifts, etc. In many households, Women are responsible for the domestic labor, including housework, care, child care, and kin keeping. So we're gonna when Colleen was first like reading when I sent over about this, she's like, this just feels like more of a mental load. This is, we already did the mental load topic. And I was like, no, this is a very specific arm. Of mental load. which is keeping in touch specifically with your husband or your partner's side of the family.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 7:45

Well, yeah, it talks about kin keeping so like keeping in touch with family and like all the family things that are related with this. And I think it's both spousal family and and your

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 7:57

Right.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 7:58

think it's both. So.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 8:00

But my side of the family is natural. I've been keeping in touch with them since I was born. It just comes very natural to keep in touch with my side of the family.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 8:08

Yeah. And I will say that is not always the case, to be

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 8:11

That's true.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 8:12

sometimes it's a lot harder to keep, you know, like in every relationship, there's different dynamics in some facets of my family. It's harder for me to keep in touch with people in my family, my side of the family, then my husband's and vice versa, I think it's very selective. So okay. So it is the. Action. What is it? The action or

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 8:36

The mental load. I mean, it's the cognitive load and the action of, like, having to maintain those relationships, having to calendar the birthdays, send the gifts maintain the relationships, the friendships, plan the events all of those things. So.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 8:53

it's the, for instance of like, did you call your mother on mother's day? Did

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 8:58

did you, send flowers? Did you send a card? Are we doing something for your mom's birthday this year? Did you know, do

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 9:04

your

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 9:05

do I need to Have the girls draw a card? All the things, like, what are we getting

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 9:09

All of that.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 9:10

your mom for Christmas?

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 9:12

Oh my God. Okay.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 9:13

Did you have a plan for that? Did you, did I need to make a plan for that? And then eventually, I think in a lot of families, like maybe spouse just takes it over. Like I'll just get your mom something. Mm. Mm hmm. Mm

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 9:25

in the article that was sent to us and even in these definitions, what, what we're seeing is traditionally this is a woman's role. Right. Which is not always the case. We will give that as a, just a little asterisk, but predominantly this is the woman's role in a man, woman relationship. So

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 9:50

What's your experience, Colleen?

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 9:52

a dude,

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 9:53

your family dynamic?

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 9:56

but

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 9:57

First of all, do you, do your in laws listen?

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 10:00

I don't think

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 10:01

Is this a safe place to talk?

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 10:04

I don't think, to be honest, I don't think any of my family listens. So fair.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 10:08

Great. Let it rip. Let's go. This will be the one episode they, they tune into.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 10:13

they're like, I'm going to listen to this one. I don't know.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 10:16

stable divided

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 10:17

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for the longest time, so both David and I come from large families. His is much larger than I, than mine. He is one of four siblings, but his mom is one of seven siblings. So he has 25 first cousins and they're all, yeah, they're all very close. And they used to all live in the same. Like in very close proximity, like they all lived in Burbank, California or adjacent. So like Christmas is when, when we first started dating. So remember that David and I started dating in high school. So I was 17 years old. And then we broke up and then got back together. So I've known this family more than half of my life. But like Christmas is used to be 85 people in like a tiny house. And then his grandpa's birthday was the day after Christmas. And that was even bigger anyway. So there was always lots of remembering and there were definitely times where we would go to family parties and like, he wouldn't know the names of like some of his second cousins or third, and I'd be like, no, no, no. That's blah, blah, blah. That's this. And I knew. Um, but yeah, and we used to do, you know, presents for everybody. And this was very much, I somehow defaulted to this role. I don't know. I don't even know why other than like, I thought that that's what I was supposed to be doing and it's just something that I think about, but yeah, I mean, it's silly, but it's social

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 11:47

slid right in.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 11:48

slid right in And then on my side of the family, you know, both of my parents are each the oldest of five. I have I have two sisters. I have one half sister that we didn't know about until 2012. So families are interesting.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 12:04

That's another episode.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 12:06

yeah, she's an older, she's older. So Cindy, we, and we all have C names. It's Cindy, Chrissy and Colleen. How weird is that? But anyway, so I grew up with one sister, so we're not as, Right. But I do have all these cousins, but yeah, I mean, I, I think it also comes down to all the extended family stuff and call your mom on mother's day and what are we doing for this niece's graduation or that nephew's graduation or, you know, Grandparents day, like even at school, like when we have grandparents day, I'm like, are you, do you want, like, are your parents coming for grandparents day? Like, are we organizing that? Like what's happening? It's a lot, man. And I have started more recently, I think just out of sheer annoyance and exhaustion just to kind of put his family stuff on him. And I feel bad about that sometimes, but I'm also like, I can't keep telling you to call your brother, you know, like I can't keep, I can't have the relationship for you, you know so I don't know, it's just, I, I think I fall right into that very stereotypical role of like, also like, what are we doing for Christmas? What are we getting everybody? Should I order this thing for your whatever? It's a lot, it's, it's a lot. What about you?

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 13:30

okay. So my spouse's family, I initially fell into the role of kin keeping with his family as well. But my relationship with my mother in law is somewhat strained. Not like, Not in a social setting would anybody ever assume that but it is strained. and she knows

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 13:54

to the show.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 13:56

and he knows it. And so over time the communication back and forth has, has dwindled and I have put that more and more back on him. But then there comes a Like there's upset because, you know, every year we will be traveling with my sisters and my mom and dad will be doing a trip. And then there's, there's jealousy that it's not happening on the other side. And so my responsibility to plan that I'm doing that on this side. I'm not doing that on that side. That's not mine.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 14:28

Let's make a note to come back to the jealousy fairness situation. I'm going to make a note about that. Go ahead.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 14:35

Yeah. And then what I've noticed happening now that he has taken over, like, the communication about events and stuff with his mom is, I don't get looped in because he's, he doesn't remember to communicate and that's, that's his problem. It's his fault. It's his problem, but I'm like, okay, well, what's going on? Like, even with this service, that's coming up for his uncle, my mom is going to go on my behalf, number one, to support, to stand in for me, because I'm very sad that I'm not going to be there. So it makes me feel better that she'll be there. Like it just. It helps my heart and then also to support my girls and to like physically be there to help with my children and cause they will be there and he's a pallbearer and he has other things to worry about and, and so I'm like, okay, well, what time's the service?

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 15:24

Yeah. How do we

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 15:25

What time does my mom need to be there? Like, what times my mom needs to be there to leave the house? She wants to be there to help get the girls ready. Like, can somebody tell me something, please? Like, this is crazy, you guys. Like, please, somebody communicate something to me. And then he has his interesting family dynamic, but his dad's not in the picture, but we're very close with his dad's side of the family. And They often forget to include us, not, I mean, they want to include us. It's not that they forget completely. They just tell us at the last minute and they generally am included in those text messages, but it's like the night before they're like, Oh, the birthday dinner's tomorrow. And it's not, it's not like intentional. It's just like everybody else lives in the same house.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 16:05

Oh,

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 16:06

And then they're like, yeah, text Cheryl and Alex. They live here too, just not in the same house with us. So I get, I do get included in those messages, it's just kind of last minute. It's just, it's just such, it's just an interesting dynamic that's so different from my family. And, you know, even when we are invited to like a holiday, it's like down to the wire and I'm like, what time

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 16:29

Yeah.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 16:30

we be there?

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 16:31

Yes.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 16:34

Like, hi.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 16:36

Well, and I think this is an interesting thing to talk about is, like, how as so I, yeah, so how as a family who has relationships with people, Each side, each in law side, right? Like how do we plan these events when you're a participant in each event, like on either side, like the, for instance, is, is for us was Christmas. Like when, when the kids were little, Christmas was, awful for us because it would be like, okay, we're going to get up and we want to do Christmas. Like we want to open presents at our house because Santa comes to our house. But my mom was insistent that she would come and she wanted to be there when the kids opened the presents at our house. And so I would be like, I don't know what time they're going to come mom. So she would just come to our house at like five in the morning. And I'm like, Oh my God. And then we would open the presents and then we would go to her house. I don't know why. And then do a breakfast at her house because that's what she wanted. And then we would have to go do a brunch at David's parents house. And then we would have to come back and do like an early dinner with my mom. And then we would go to David's grandpa's house, like, And we were just

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 18:03

you moved a flight away.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 18:05

honestly. I mean, it did. There was part of it, right? It was just like, and if we didn't do all of those things, somebody was always upset and it was the, the equality of being, of sharing time was something that I had to like talk about. Cane keeping was talking about like, like I had to keep like a. Like an hour table, like a table of like, how much time do we spend over here? How much time do we spend over here? And every time we would do something with one side of the family, the other side of the family would be like, Oh, well, you're over there with the hunger for it's again, Oh, weren't you? You know, and I'm just like. I can't do it, man. Like, so then I was like, bye, I'm out. Move away, have my own holidays. And I think that's a whole other conversation is like reestablishing yourself as a family unit when you're part of a big family, but this trying to keep track and trying to keep relations, it was like, I felt like I was like part of the United nations, like trying to keep like good relations between all parties. There's just so many

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 19:08

Like the fairness,

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 19:10

Yes. Listen, I've got so many weddings coming up this year. Both Daveed's younger brother and younger sister are getting married, and then my cousin's getting married, and then one of his cousins is getting married. Is getting married. And one of my aunts on my mom's side was like, Hey, are you coming to, to the wedding? And I was like, well, I don't, I don't think so because we've got to be siblings, which I feel like in the hierarchy of life is like a more important wedding, right? Sibling versus cousin. Like that's how it goes. We've got these two weddings. We have to travel to them and traveling with five people's a lot, you know,

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 19:48

Not cheap.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 19:49

it's not cheap. It's time. It's time off work. It's like all this. And you know, she, she was like, I understand, but she also, and I love her so much, but it was a little bit like, yeah, I mean, we, we canceled part of our 50th anniversary wedding trip to go to this. What this wedding because we wanted to see everybody and we haven't seen you guys since the last cousin wedding. And I was just like, Oh my God, I'm trying. Like I can't. And it's not that I don't want to see them,

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 20:19

Right. Just can't do it.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 20:23

it can't do it all. And you can't keep track of it all. And you can't keep, it can't keep score all the time.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 20:28

Mm.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 20:30

anyway.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 20:31

In this phase with three young children, you still have young children, truly, like, they're, they have events. They have things. They have, it's just too much. It is too much. Okay. Let's see. Some of the other points around this kin keeping that we were going to touch on, oh, impact on mental health. Well, I'm tired. Oh,

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 20:51

the cultural variations thing is interesting. And it, it's a little bit different than what I was thinking when I first read this, but the thing that I was thinking is like also trying to like maintain traditions Cultural traditions and then just like familial traditions is, I think, a challenge to balance those things within the familial relationships and then also create and establish your own traditions. That's something that we really have struggled with, I think, and feel like I failed at because there was all, my husband's family had all these traditions and all these things that they did, all the, you know, like, and they're lovely, but I just, like, I can't remember when St. Nicholas Day is and put oranges in their shoes. And I can't. Remember that to, to re a lot of this revolves around Christmas. I don't know why, but like to, to ring, to go outside and do the flashlight and ring the bell to see if Santa's going to fly by and like all these traditions that they did and they wanted to keep, but then they also wanted us to do them with them versus us, like re establishing those traditions in our own home. I don't know. And I feel a lot of responsibility to like, keep. Cultural traditions. I don't know if you, if that's like big for you, but because we, my family, you know, my mom says Greek and Italian, and they're very proud of that. And that's like a big part of our growing up was. Was food and, and, and holidays and, you know, like that part of the culture. And then David's family is Mexican and Italian. And then that's a whole other thing. So like, how do we, it just comes to, how do we do it all? Like, how do I,

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 22:43

different perspective on this because my, beloved mother in law. Does bring a lot of traditions into my house, uh, without asking me,

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 22:55

Oh

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 22:55

they just arrive,

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 22:56

my God.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 22:57

Like, even like she'll bring an Easter basket on Easter, for instance, like when I've done an Easter basket Easter, or like, just like, Take over the holiday and like just do it on my behalf, which I find very offensive and like overstepping And there's no communication. This is one of the reasons we have an issue It's because it's like but we'll talk to me and see if I'm okay. Like I'm the mom These are my jobs like with my children. These are my jobs. You are the grandparent. There's an Like auxiliary job for you, there's something for you to do, a role for you, but like the primary role belongs to me and like discuss with me what I'm doing and then find your space around that please. But that's never discussed and I, I do find it really offensive and, and, irritating that it happens time and time again.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 23:55

think honestly, a grandparents, not all of them. My dad's parents were phenomenal and they were very respectful of my, of my parents. I think, I don't know, I was a kid, maybe they weren't. But it seemed as they were, but I find that It's really hard, especially when your kids are little or younger, you know, all, all of our kids, the six of our kids together are 10 and under. Right. So they're still young. It's really seems to be a challenge for grandparents, particularly grandmothers to take the step back, to take the role as grandmother versus mother. Like I, I'm noticing that as. As a common theme amongst friends, right? Is that because I, everything you're saying I've experienced, I'm like, why are you buying them the biggest Christmas present? Or why are you trying to buy the, you know, like, I don't want you to buy that for them because I want to buy that for them for, you know what I mean? Or like, why are you doing that? I, that's something that I would like to do because they can't, it's like, they can't understand that, that the role of grandparent is different than parent. Like there is a,

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 25:09

Mm hmm.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 25:11

And, and I just like, it's infuriating sometimes

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 25:16

is. It is.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 25:19

And I don't know that they realize it. Like I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that I don't know that they always realize what they're doing. I think for the most part, it's good intention. Sometimes it's not, sometimes it's not good

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 25:30

I do think it's, I do think it's with good intention. They want to be a shining star for the kiddos, which of course, I understand that, but like, I think as a mom, and I've had to explain this to Alex, cause Alex always calls me Gets to give the present that I picked out and bought and wrapped and like spent all the mental load on. And then he gets to be the fucking hero. And I'm like, okay, well, my job as a mom is really, it's a dirty job. Like I'm the punisher. I'm the like nagger. I'm the one teaching all the lessons and I'm the one like getting them everywhere and having to buckle them in their car seat and fighting that battle with them every day. Like. All day long, like my job is to like do all the things with them, which is like annoying. It's not the fun part. Like I don't wrestle with them. I'm not doing the, I'm not playing with them. I'm nurturing and nagging and teaching them all day. And then you get to come in and be the hero with the gift that I fucking thought up and bought. And like did all the work for

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 26:28

Yeah.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 26:29

he has, he's heard me and he doesn't do that anymore. He's like, he'll like, wait and let me give it or like hand it to me to get, or, you know, like, he's like letting me be the star now with the presents because I'm like, it's just not. Like, I don't mean to be a baby about this, but like, it's just not fair. I want, I want to be the star sometimes. Like I do all this. I do the grunt work. Let me take the star role here with

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 26:55

Yeah. I mean, I agree.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 26:57

then I think grandmas need that conversation too. Like, I like, and actually this year, Easter Bunny didn't bring their baskets this year, mom brought their baskets because I'm not giving the Easter Bunny the fucking, she doesn't get it either anymore. Like, I'm the one that thought of what you wanted, like Easter Bunny hid your eggs, mom got you the basket, mom got you the presents. Like, I'm just not like, I'm doing all this fucking work.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 27:26

Yeah. And that's,

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 27:28

Maybe I'm a narcissist, but I'm sorry.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 27:32

I don't think so. A narcissist would never say, I think I'm a narcissist. But that is a really interesting point when it comes down to like holidays and like, you know, if you're, if you are, you know, you do the Santa thing or you do the Easter bunny thing or you do whatever, right. Where it's like somebody brings somebody else bring you my kids. Are so interesting because they, they still believe and my middle son, who is like more financially conscious, like he's really into money and he likes it. He's like, well, mom, it's okay. And that, not like I put a lot of money pressure on him at all, but like, you know, he's smart. He's like, I'll just ask for, The really expensive thing for Christmas because Santa gets it so you don't have to get it. And I'm like, like, it's so sweet, but also I'm like, Oh my God, fuck Santa.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 28:23

Well, in our house, Santa doesn't get them the big gift. And I don't know if you've heard this go around, but there's a couple of reasons. One, again, I'm not giving Santa all the credit. Santa's going to get them like small, like maybe each a small little thing and then one big thing together. But then also because. I want the credit and second, because there's kids at school that Santa can't get the big thing for. So if they go to school and they're like, Santa got me this, like. iPad and poor school is like, Oh, Santa got me socks or Nothing. Then like, see of you know, finances becomes really, really apparent and

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 29:03

Yeah. Oh.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 29:06

was like, Oh yeah. Santa's not getting the big expensive gift for my kids

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 29:10

That's good to start that, now. Right. Because I'm too deep. I'm too deep in this now. Like, you know, 10, eight and 10. Like, but the other thing that's interesting is I've, and I've heard this, like, like shout out to the, to the Jewish kids or to the kids that are not Christian for like helping keep this, helping keep the secrets. Cause they come back to school and they're like, yeah, man, cool. What's Santa get you? You know, they're like, okay. I had to be quiet there because my children started to walk by the door and I was like, Oh my God, I'm going to ruin, I'm going to ruin the surprise. But yeah, I mean, I think it is like just all of this, it goes back to the mental load, which is very similar, but this is like such a specific portion of it. And I think was the article, it was in the New York times. Was that where the article was that you sent us? Yeah. And I'm like, it's so interesting now that they're like, Naming these things because it's all stuff that we just like have

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 30:11

expected for years,

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 30:13

years.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 30:15

generations, generations. Okay. I had a point on this that I realized as I was getting ready for this. So I did 23andMe and on 23andMe, you can build your family tree. So it gives you like relatives that have also done 23 and me, and then you can like your family tree and like figure out which side they're on. So then you were like, so I have like a distant second cousin, one's removed or whatever. And then I'm like, okay, now I can place my grandparent here. And then it's like, do you know which grandparent belongs here? You can figure it out by linking like which relatives do you know, which relatives these people belong to? And so last night I'm like, It was too late to text my mom. She's in Michigan. So she's in, in Colleen's time zone. And so I'm texting my dad. I'm like, isn't this last name your side of the family? And he's like, yeah, I think so. And I'm like, okay, cool. And then I'm like, what about this? And I'm asking all these questions and I'm like, where was mom born? And he's like, I don't know. She was born in a on a farm in Marine City. And I was like, Oh, really? Nana had mom at home? And he's like, nah, I don't remember. And I'm like, of course you don't remember. And then this morning my mom is like available to text and I'm like texting to confirm everything. And she's like, No. And like, I had my whole family tree backwards because

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 31:37

Oh my God.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 31:39

I'm like, just such an example of kin keeping. Like, and we have no one reliable on his side of the family. Like everybody's gone on his side of the family. So like to build the family outside will be difficult. I will have to rely completely on my mom for what she remembers, which like there again, the family, the load of like, she's responsible for keeping that side of the family tree alive.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 32:05

Yeah, that's insane. Like

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 32:07

I'm in her side of the family.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 32:09

how would she even know that? How would she even know

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 32:11

I know. 40 years of marriage.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 32:14

Yeah. My, Not that this has to do with kin keeping, but my grandpa was super into genealogy and like he had, I think that was like a hobby of his. So he had really kept track of all of All of those things. So that was like a different perspective, right? Because it was something that he was interested in as like a hobby. He was like keeping track of the stuff versus like, if it was just up to him to just know stuff, I don't know that he would, you know, he would. But listen, that I got to do the 23andme because I have my mom. One of my mom's cousins is like also super into genealogy. And she like has all of my mom's, my maternal grandmother, that's how they're related side, like all mapped out, like all the way back to like, she found cousins that are still in Italy, like that are like down our line. Anyway, that's not what we're talking about at all, but I find it very interesting. It's

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 33:19

Well, it is interesting. And I thought my dad was right because this last name, I was like, Oh, I do remember meeting cousins at a wedding when I was young with this last name. And I'm like, Oh, and then when I, cause you can see then where people were born and like where their maternal grandparents and paternal grandparents were born. And they were born in Rochester, New York, which is where my grandpa My dad's side, my dad's dad was born in Rochester, New York. And I was like, Oh yeah, this tracks like that is dad's side of the family. And it wasn't.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 33:47

well,

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 33:48

I'm like, how interesting. I wonder if they're related on both sides, potentially. Like, wouldn't that be interesting if like the family tree intersected twice? I can do different spots.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 33:58

and think about the fact that like, If we go back to this idea of kin keeping, trying to circle it back here, but like, it was the woman's responsibility to keep track of these things and pass these things down either orally or like through some sort of map. Like, how accurate is any of this stuff that we know, you know, like relationships and history and like, for, I think about my grandmother who was. A military, a Navy wife who had five kids essentially by herself, because my grandpa was a Naval commander, like during world war II and during the Korean war, like all this stuff, like all the things that she was responsible for granted different times. She didn't have a out of the home job. Right. But she still 10 years, like yeesh. Like that's, that's crazy. I think less, honestly. And all the things that she had to be responsible for, and she was like tough as nails. But that's just how she had to be. And she was a tough, tough lady, but to think about that and all those pressures, but now to think about me, like two generations, like I now have to be responsible for all of those things. I have three kids, not five, but I also have to, I also have to slash and choose to work outside of the home. And I also have to be like. Gentle and loving and you know, I'm not chasing my kids around with the like electrical cord when they're like not behaving, you know, and like all that additional like mental load and responsibilities that we're having to, and again, now my husband wasn't out in active war. So like. That's a mental load that I don't ever have to deal with. But it's just interesting how the, the, those loads and those relationships change, but also stay so similar as they like come down the line. I don't know, man, I think you and I have done a fairly good job, like trying to push, not push, try to share some of the responsibilities push, To our spouses. But it is the fact that, but we have to be vocal about that. Right. And we've talked about this before in our mental load episode that like, thank goodness we have spouses that are willing to. Hear us out and listen. And even though maybe that's not how they were initially responding or conditioned to, to take on these additional tasks, but I can't imagine like having a spouse who is like, nah, like that's like, no, you, I'm not doing that, you know, like that would be immensely challenging.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 36:51

I see it in Facebook groups more than I see it in my social circle. Like I'll see in the mom groups people venting about their spouse and I'm like, Oh, I'm so sad for you.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 37:02

I just feel so sad and it's just so. Yeah, it's so sad. And it's very easy just for somebody on the outside to be like, well, just don't be in that relationship. But like once you're so intertwined and you've got kids and, and financial, that's just like, and emotion, you know, I just, I don't know, man, I feel very lucky. I feel very lucky sometimes, even though I, it's fucking hard.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 37:29

There is, there is no perfect relationship. Period. End of story. And, and thank goodness, you know, there's that whole thing. Like if you took everybody's problems and put them out on the table, you'd probably grab your own back.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 37:42

Hmm. Yeah.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 37:45

You know, I'd always grab my own back. I love my problem most of the time.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 37:52

I mean, like, uh, if our biggest problem is that like, you know, we're the ones buying the Christmas gifts, like, honestly, it's not that bad.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 38:02

You know what I do now? I wait till after Christmas and then I see what was good that people got people. And then I buy Christmas gifts and just give them late.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 38:11

I love it. I love that.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 38:13

you know I don't, I don't subscribe to just buying a gift because there's an occasion. Like, I'll buy you a gift when it makes sense to buy you a gift.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 38:21

Yeah. Okay. That's fair. We started doing like once. So David, I told you as one of four. Right. And so we started doing this like siblings secret Santa thing. Right. Because now there's eight of us, like either, you know,

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 38:37

Too expensive.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 38:38

we get gifts for the kids. Kids like the nieces and nephews and stuff. But like we were having to be like, what are we going to get Tomas and Chanel? What are we going to get Miguel and Joel? What are we going to get Alicia and Matt? Like, you know, and try, and it also becomes like a waste of money because you're getting them gifts that they. Probably aren't going to like, or use because your, your budget isn't really what you would, or you're spending way too much money on gifts anyway. So we started doing like a secret Santa thing, which ended up being a lot more fun where we would just pick a name from the siblings and get that one person. And then we have like a budget and that was like, that became like a manageable thing. And it also became like kind of fun, you know, like, David now has, he's very good. And I kind of pushed this over to him because I couldn't do it anymore. Was it, he. Makes, and you will love this, Cheryl. He makes a whole Christmas spreadsheet, like a whole spreadsheet of the Christmas gifts.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 39:39

Do it in a sexy voice. Keep going.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 39:42

And so he'll keep track of everything. And I'm like, love that for you. Thank you for doing that because I I think he did that one because I was just like buying just almost like panic buying, you know, like we got to get more, we got to do this, we got to do this. And he'd be like, well, what did you get? I'm like, I don't know. I just got all these things. And I don't know where

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 40:00

I hit them. I don't remember where my hiding spots are.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 40:03

And did we get a, you know, like, I want to make sure that we, nobody feels like, Oh, you got this person more, or you got this, you know, like with the, between the three kids, that's also a game of like balance, right? Like, like this past year we got the boys now, listen, this is rich people shit I'm talking about. These are not problems. And this is going to sound so Privileged. Okay. So just bear with me here.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 40:30

This is a champagne problem coming, ladies.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 40:31

This is not,

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 40:32

Ladies, report.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 40:33

this is so it's like embarrassing, but also I worked really hard to get here, so like kiss my butt. We got the boys, these ATVs, right. And we got them each the eight in a TV. And then we've got Vivian and Apple Watch, right? And like monetarily, the Apple Watch was more than the ATVs, right? But the ATVs are big, so they create more of a visual impact. I talk a lot about this during Christmas as far as like visual impact when they come down the stairs. And so it's like, how do we balance? And you know, listen, I'm, I'm so extra, but I really want to make sure that my kids feel Special and feel loved and feel, you know, like have a great experience, but I'm also like, we've got to make sure when they come downstairs and like, see the tree that like, it looks equal. Does that make sense? Like yeah, I know I realize it's so, so awful when I say it and it's really not a thing, but I am very

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 41:32

It's not

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 41:34

But I never want someone to be like, well, disappointed at Christmas and be like, but then I'm also like, how do I not make asshole kids where they're like, are just like Veruca salt? Like give it to me now. You know, like,

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 41:49

because I'm, I'm erroring on the other side, Colleen. I'm like, I'm embarrassed. We need less presence around the tree because when I, when I grew up, we had like obnoxious amount of presence around the tree because we were, we were bought for by my parents, by my grandparents, by my aunts and uncles, by my uncle, who is the one that's in Michigan. And he didn't have any kids. So we were like spoiled rotten. And then my grandpa. Like we were spoiled by many people, spoiled, and it was embarrassing. Like when we were young, it was amazing to see like this, like our entire living room full of presents on Christmas morning. It was so cool. And then as we got older, I was like, Oh, this is like a lot of

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 42:33

a lot. Yeah.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 42:36

Like almost obnoxious a lot and like, and I would hear at school, like there was for a while where we, we each got a thousand dollars, me and my sisters, like a thousand dollars cash each Christmas

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 42:46

Oh my God. That is a lot.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 42:49

I know. And then all the other presents and, I mean, it was delightful and so sweet and so nice. It was

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 42:56

Can I be like, how do I get to be

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 42:58

I know it was really fantastic, but it was like, I, it started to become clear, like, Oh, not everybody gets this. Yeah. And then it started to feel different. And then now as a parent, I'm like, it's like this very interesting balance of like, enough, but not too much that I'm trying to walk the line on.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 43:20

Isn't that interesting? And it's so interesting to think about how, how your experiences form what you do for your kids. Right? Like my mom always did the most she could. And my, my grandparents, my dad's parents were really, really good at filling in for the lack of a better term in in that sense for her. And my grandmother loved Christmas. She loved a big Christmas and it wasn't a, wasn't a thing for my mom and her family. And I wouldn't say that our Christmases were bad, but you know, I came from a situation, I came growing up, you know, like not having, my mom gave us the most as she could, right. And probably gave us more than she could. And in a, in a financially irresponsible way, you know, and so I'm, you know, when you don't grow up with a lot or you grow up feeling like financially stressed and then you have the means. To do it for your kids. It's like, it's an overcompensation and it's a hundred percent about me, not them. Right. And that's and I see that now so much in everything that I do for my kids, you know and I don't think it's bad, but it's very apparent, you know, like I, I had the, the meltdown in the car the other day. I think I told you this, but like the kids, the kids got in the car and I was like, I picked them up from school and I worked so hard to pick them up from to have a job that allows me to pick them up from school.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 44:40

Hmm.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 44:42

they were like, I was like, Oh, how was your field trip? How was your thing? And blah, blah, blah. And they were like, it's fine. It was, we don't want to talk about it. And I was like, and I was having a hard day and I think I was tired and whatever. And I was like, listen, work really hard to pick you up from school every day. And Nana never picked me up from school. Like I kind of unleashed on them. And I was like, I was the kid that got dropped off at seven in the morning and picked up at seven at night. And all I ever wanted was for my mom to pick me up from school. And they were like, uh, You know, they don't know, but I changed my life so that I could be that type of parent for them. And because that's important to me, but they don't know any different. Right. And then I apologize later. I was like, sorry, none of that is your. Faults. None of that is your responsibility that that was on me. I was like, but I am really interested in what you're doing and I'm really interested in you. And so I'd like to understand, but this whole, all of this comes down and it, it relates back to kin keeping, right? Because it's also like trying to keep up with all of the, all the things that you wish you had as a kid and all the things you feel responsible to maintain. As a parent, I mean, this parenting thing is just so hard, so layered and like so much. But to hear from you, like you had so much during that now you feel like, okay, well, I want my kids to not like, not to have less, but to like, it can be scaled back and that's okay. And that the balance is okay. And that's so derived from, from how. You know, individually we were raised and how, and how we grow up. But, but

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 46:22

when I also feel no pressure to pick my kids up from school if my mom did it every day

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 46:27

yeah. Isn't that interesting? And I, it isn't so interesting. It's

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 46:30

I mean I do it sometime and I like to do it when I can but I don't put any pressure on myself I'm totally fine with the au pair doing it friends doing it. Like I'll get you I'm certainly not working until like I'm there by four, you know, but

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 46:45

But

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 46:46

I feel no pressure.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 46:47

yeah. And it was, it's a big deal for me. Like it's a, it's a really big deal for me to make sure that I am there, you know, David now picks them up two days a week, Monday and Friday, and I pick them up Tuesday, but it's really important to me that they get picked up and there, listen, there are days where they have to go to, to the aftercare, you know, A couple of times, you know, but because I didn't have that and I always wanted that, like, it made me feel like, you know, on like, like I didn't matter. Right. Like, and it wasn't right. My mom was a single mom. She worked, she ran her own business. Listen, I get it now from an adult perspective, but the feelings and the emotional impact that had on me was, was big. So I never wanted my kids to feel that way. And they never will. And they'll be like you, you know, when they have kids and they'll be like, whatever, like somebody else can pick them up. I think it's just, it all goes back to like, how are we as women, as entrepreneurs, as people, as parents, like being intentional about what we're doing and how we're doing it and how it affects this next generation of. of people that we're raising and like, how are we going to change this situation so that, you know, Vivian and you know, your girls don't feel this responsibility to, to keep up their spouses, family relations, or like, how do we making sure that they communicate with their spouses so that this is a more shared. If they want to get married, maybe they don't want to get married. But a more shared experience, particularly for our daughters.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 48:26

Yeah I mean, daddy's a whole person. Daddy, daddy has his own relationships. That's, that's daddy's mom. Daddy can, you know, and I'm very clear, like when the girls want to call Gigi, I'm like, Oh yeah, you guys can call Gigi when daddy gets home. Like, or go do it on the iPad. I just don't want

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 48:50

Yes.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 48:51

call Mimi. Mommy wants to come to Mimi. I'm happy to call Mimi. And sometimes like if we have something to tell Gigi, like I still communicate with her, you guys, I'm not a monster. I still send her pictures when the girls draw her pictures and things like I'm still sending those things. I'm not, I am not a monster, but I like, I

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 49:06

You're not a monster.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 49:08

I don't, I don't want to hand my phone over for 30 minutes to listen to that conversation. Like, go get the iPad or wait till your dad gets home. Because

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 49:18

I have to end up facilitating that conversation. I don't know if your kids, my kids are not good at talking on the phone or FaceTiming, like they'll want to do the calls, but then, you know, they're just sitting there and I'm like, why don't you ask Nana or Nana how their day was like, why don't you talk to them? Like, and I'm like, I can't, I don't want to be a part of this conversation. You wanted to

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 49:40

Yeah, this is not how I'm spending the next 30 minutes of my day. I don't have fucking time for this.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 49:44

Yeah. Yeah.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 49:45

Mommy needs to send 17 emails and,

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 49:48

Yeah. In this 30 minutes, I have so

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 49:50

this ain't it. Yeah.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 49:51

I guess. And the other thing I want to add to that, because I specifically talked about our daughters, but I have two boys and I think I take, I, it is a huge responsibility of mine to make sure that my boys are raised in a way that they will, We'll not do this to their partners. And then they will, and if they end up doing it, that there'll be the type of humans that will be responsive to correction and communication. And, you know, like, I think that that's really, really important that we teach, we teach it to our daughters, but that we also teach it to our sons because holy crap, I like, if my dude, my guys douchebags, I'm just going to be like, So mad at them. Like what the hell?

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 50:35

I mean, there's definitely instances where I give direction to Alex, like say I'm going to have, I'm going to be having a procedure, I'll be like, start a group text with my mom and my sisters and let them know, like, when I'm out of surgery, like, these are the times you should be making contact with them. This is what they're going to expect, like, get on the group text. Might want to also include my best friend because she's going to be breathing down your throat. If you don't include her, she'll include You

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 50:56

Yeah.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 50:57

know, so like I have to give that direction where on the other side, like if Alex was going into surgery, like I just have that text going, I don't need that same direction.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 51:07

Some of that I think is also just personality wise too, right? Like some of that is personality driven, not like if they're, if I said to my best friend the other day, like sometimes I just wish, you know, David would like take control of things. And she was like, no, you don't. I was like, I was like, rude. She's like, you want to be in charge, Colleen. You've always wanted to be in charge. I was like, yeah, but I would like to be a little bit less in charge of some things. And she was like, do you, I was like,

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 51:37

like, to be in charge of making him in charge of like three

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 51:40

Yeah. Like I would like to be in charge. Yeah, exactly. I would like to be in charge of making him in charge of these things that I don't have to think about, but I also want him to report back to me on them

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 51:50

And I'd like him to do them exactly how I would like them done, please.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 51:53

Correct. But it was such a

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 51:55

I would like to tell him one time how to do them exactly how I want them done and I'd like to never think about it again. Oh,

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 52:01

it was such a reality check too. She was just like, you don't want to be married to you, Colleen. You, you wouldn't want that. And I was like, Oh God. Wow. And it's interesting because she is just like David. She says it all the time. She's like, that's why we're, that's why we're best friends is because, and that's why you married to bead because the same person I was like, Oh,

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 52:24

you see besties? It's all the time. I notice it.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 52:28

all the time. Anyway. Okay. Well, I'm, did we talk about kin keeping? I'm not sure. I think we

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 52:34

I think we did. You guys, everybody, when you stop listening, please hang up and call your mother in law and tell her you love her. Moral of the story, plan a, plan a vacation with your mother in law. Thank you for, thank you for listening.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 52:46

Oh my God. Or don't. Oh,

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 52:52

Send her a present,

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 52:53

Oh

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 52:53

and hang up flowers

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 52:55

You know, you know what you should do is you should create a calendar or a spreadsheet for your husband to make sure that they're on top of doing all of these things. So you do it one time and you put it on the calendar for them. And then it's their responsibility.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 53:12

Yes. Susie, can we get a shared calendar

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 53:15

Yeah.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 53:15

that has alerts

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 53:17

Yeah.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 53:18

that we can just subscribe our partners to?

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 53:20

Yeah. And like an option to like customize it for like specific birthdays, but then like just general holidays are already on there. Like, I think we've come up with something like maybe we make an app or something here,

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 53:33

Nobody wants one more app.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 53:35

I'll download any fucking app. I'll give you my email. I'll download an app. I don't care. Make a calendar shareable calendar. That'd be great.

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 53:44

Let's go. Let's do it. All right, you guys keep doing it right. We love you.

colleen_1_05-27-2024_113412: 53:48

Love

cheryl_1_05-27-2024_083412: 53:48

See you soon.