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Empowering Workplaces and Lives: Charan Bashir's Approach to Mindful Leadership
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Empowering Workplaces and Lives: Charan Bashir's Approach to Mindful Leadership
This episode delves into the transient nature of emotions, effective leadership strategies, and the impact of compassionate practices in both personal and professional contexts.
Special guest Charan Bashir, shares insights on trauma-informed care, emotional intelligence, and mindfulness. He emphasizes individualized solutions for organizational growth, conflict resolution, and personal development, highlighting the importance of servant leadership and self-awareness.
Charan Bashir is a licensed professional counselor who uses trauma informed and mindfulness based approaches to cultivate transformation at individual and organizational levels. He supports self compassionate growth and helps clients navigate life transitions, cultivate greater emotional intelligence, and find stability in challenging times.
Connecting with Charan:
Website: https://www.charanbashir.com/
00:00 Understanding Emotions and Breathing Techniques
00:49 Welcome Back and Meet the Hosts
01:43 Introducing Sir Charles Barkley
02:02 Special Guest: Licensed Professional Counselor Bashir
03:38 Bashir's Journey and Professional Background
05:45 Supporting Workplace Leaders and Organizations
08:15 Addressing Organizational Challenges and Conflicts
17:09 Servant Leadership and Empowering Employees
27:12 Generational Shifts in Leadership
28:01 Compassion-Driven Leadership vs. Fear-Driven Leadership
30:37 Changing Workplace Dynamics
33:12 Understanding Internal Family Systems
36:41 The Impact of Trauma on Self-Perception
44:53 The Role of Mindfulness in Therapy
54:22 How to Work with Charyn Bashier
in truth, emotions last about 30 minutes, maybe 45. And anything beyond that is us saying, okay, I want that now. I'm going to hold it really close until I'm ready to let it go. And sometimes just breathing through it allows the emotion to come and go, you know?
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:guys, welcome back. We're doing it right. Right, Colleen?
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Yeah, we're, we're doing it right. My dog did I, is not doing it right today. Poor guy. You guys know I just got a Yorkie puppy and he came from a shelter and he was like fully matted. Like poor guy was like fully matted. And so I took him to the groomer today and they just cheered him like a sheep. And he is like this naked.
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:over.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Skinny, tiny, like, poor dog is like, what the hell just happened to me? And so,
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:Uh, who are these people? What'd they do to my haircut?
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:and so I am dying and I, poor guy, I'm just sending his picture to everybody I know and making fun of him. So other than that, he's, we're, we're doing great. I think it's great.
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:to the party, Sir Charles Barkley. That's his name in case anybody's wondering.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Oh my God.
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:Charles Barkley. Barkley or Bark a lot?
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Barkley. Like Charles Barkley, but like
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:I know. I mean, I know him, but
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Colin Farrelly.
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:okay. Hi, Charlie. Welcome to the party, Charlie. We're also going to welcome to the party today, a very special guest.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Yes.
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:Bashir. He is a licensed professional counselor who uses trauma informed and mindfulness based approaches to cultivate transformation at individual and organizational levels. He supports self compassionate growth and helps clients navigate life transitions, cultivate greater emotional intelligence, and find stability in challenging times. Welcome to the party, Charan.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Thank you so much.
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:Hello.
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:Are you so proud of me? I got your name correct like three times during that intro. You guys have been botching his name.
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:I need to record that soundbite. That was a phenomenal introduction. I loved it.
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:I'll pitch it out to you. Don't worry. You can have it. You've got it. We did actually record it, believe it or not.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:yeah, I did get recorded.
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:Okay.
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:so one thing you guys might notice about Charan is he is not our typical makeup of a guest, meaning he is not a woman.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:No, he's not.
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:are our second man, Charan.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Welcome.
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:it feel?
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Second male.
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:feel honored. feel honored to be here with you all.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:We're so honored to have you. so much for being here. Well, so Cheryl did your fantastic intro. But tell us. Tell us more. We want to know. We want to know so much more about you. Tell us. I know you made a big move across the country and now tell us all about you. Tell us about what your practice is. We want to hear all about it.
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:Yes. Yes. Well, I'll give you the kind of general overview and we can kind of dive and dig in where it feels the most appropriate. But as Cheryl had mentioned, I am a licensed professional counselor. I currently live in practice in Denver, but I found my way to Denver by way of Detroit, by way of my hometown of And like most Chicagoans, I am actually from the South Suburbs Park Forest, but it's close enough to call Chicago because people don't know the entire surrounding suburbs, but I actually got my start in Michigan. So that's where I originally started practicing after I got my grad degree in. Chicago at the Adler School of Professional Psychology. And I did my undergrad at UIC where I studied applied psychology in sociology. And like most people, or maybe unlike most people, I found that my professional journey was really just defined by chasing consistently what made me feel good, what felt very authentic to me and very value aligned and. Maybe a lot of therapists might have the same story, but I initially just felt really connected to the experience of Developing relationship with people, enjoying my own friend groups, diving into different communities and learning new things about myself and other people. And quite naturally that kind of became a study in psychology. You know, I think there's this colloquial story of I just loved psych when I was in high school, right? And also started to pave a path for me where I began to conceptualize relationship building and connecting through the practice of therapy. And what's that, what it has transformed into lately as being able to use some of those psychologically relevant tools and infuse them with different disciplines. I found this really cool niche of supporting workplace leaders and organizations who wanted to experience some sort of culture development or leadership strategy development. And I like to infuse that work and passion towards connecting with people to move people forward in the individual space and as well. So it's a, bit of everything, but having a root in that psychological support and connection and forwarding people's sense of well being.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Amazing. Now, I want to ask you because I I want to touch on that point about coming into an organization or coming into a group because a lot of our listeners are either, you know, small business owners or entrepreneurs or executives, are you entering that space early on in, in the new development of a team? Or are you coming in where there's. Potentially already a situation or a need for, or a want for culture change. Like, how does that usually work for you?
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:Yeah, good question. that is very synonymous for me with the individual work that I do with clients. And as you can imagine, individuals might come, know, because they want to prepare for what life ahead of them will look like through the experience of therapy. Whereas other people might find their way to me because they are maybe in a very challenging time in their lives and they want to be able to kind of. Dig themselves out of that hole metaphorically. So what I find with organizations is that I always come in with value aligned work that I can provide and they let me know what collaboration will be the most beneficial to their current context. So I have had the opportunity of speaking within. Leadership development programs at companies for new leaders who organization wants to get more in depth experience of what it means to lead people and I'll offer up some core value work and personal self discovery to aid that. in other circumstances and contexts, it can look like, Hey, we recognize that there are some fractures in our organizational ecosystem that we don't want to now destroy the metaphorical foundation of this home. So how can we begin to cultivate some transformation at that point as well?
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:I mean, are you ever just coming into like a house that's burning down? Like, is that like, are they ever like trying to, because. This shit's about to sink like is that or is that usually happening earlier? Are you usually stepping in a little bit earlier than that?
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:You know, it's both and, you know, I've had the experience. Where there has been this metaphorical, the house is on fire right now and we need support.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Yeah.
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:I always come back to what is the work that I can provide. And for me, that all stems from an individual, right? And I see the organization as a larger ecosystem, right? So that might mean, there's a fire here. What do we need to do as executive leadership in order to address the fire, build a strong strategic plan towards development? How do we collaboratively share those goals and objectives with the team members who might be experiencing the metaphorical burns of that fire? So it really just depends on where the organization, where the individual, where the community is, because I'm really big on meeting people where they are. It's, it's a part of my compassion driven work, where matter where you are in your problem solving strategy or point on the spectrum of development, I like to experience this sense of grounding within any moment with the potential for change to happen, for development to happen, or to create a strong foundation towards perpetual growth.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Yeah. We're
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:grounding exercises you might recommend for a dumpster fire situation?
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:Yeah, I love that. A dumpster fire. I
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:We've moved into the dumpster and our house is on fire.
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:Yeah. Yes. Well, I would say one of the first elements of grounding in that hypothetical situation would be, you know, Very radical and courageous acceptance of the elements of this fire, right? that would mean taking into consideration, courageously owning what was the inception of the fire, discovering how far the fire is metaphorically reaching within that dumpster. that way you can begin to create a strategic plan because oftentimes and individually, we have a knee jerk reaction as humans to say, this is the problem. I want a solution right now. Or in some cases I wanted the solution yesterday. Why is it not here? Right. And that's sort of, Drive and attachment towards immediacy often pushes the goal acquisition further away from us and a really strong grounding exercise I would encourage and I suggest with the organizations that I work with is. Let's take a step back and discover what are we even attempting to do, right? What, what is the problem that we're actually trying to solve for? can often be the hardest part and also take the most courage just to say, Oh shit, this is on fire right now.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:like, you don't know we're trying to solve something that we don't even know. Like sometimes people don't even know what problem they're trying to solve. Right. Like, I'm sure that happens.
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:Absolutely. Absolutely. And what can happen from that perspective is that begin running towards the idea of a solution without appropriately conceptualizing. What is the solution that we actually want to get to? And how will it then benefit the people who are in the midst of the challenge? But also, solving for problems also needs to consider do we stop cyclical challenges from then showing up yet again, you know?
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:So what I'm hearing you say, yeah, we have to get real, like with ourselves. And maybe our organization and probably own our part and that can, I'm sure be the hardest part is like, what did I do to cause this? Like, it's easier to like, look around the organization for instance, and say like, that's toxic, that's toxic, but maybe I enabled the toxicity. Maybe I keep hiring the same personality type. Maybe I, you know, like, what is my, cause, cause at the end of the day. We can only change us. So I guess it really does have to be a hard look in the mirror, which is probably the courage you were talking about because that's uncomfortable.
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:yeah.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:And when you,
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:how you named that too. Getting real, right? Getting and seeing what's happening. Truly there. And I mean, that's relatable for every person, right? As you mentioned, it's so easy to point out toxicity that might exist within our organizations very akin to our own personal lives, right? We recognize a problem and say, well, I play a role in it, but these other 20 people are the real reason why the problem is showing up.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:right. when you're entering into these situations, In an organization, and then we can talk about non organizational work as well. But, you know, I always ask this when I talk about people who come in and kind of intervene in, in these, where do you start? Do you start with the leader? Do you start with the subordinates? Do you start, like, what is your process with that? If there's a situation that it, where there's a. A tiff, if you will, or, or a fire, however it goes, like, do you have a process or do you kind of just, is each situation individual and you kind of have to feel your way out?
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:the latter will always be true because I'm really big on individualized solutions, and I do not believe that one thing will work for every person or every organization every time. But there are some strategies that I like to implement that are really supportive. And Speaking specifically to organizations. It's important to think about that as a larger system as it truly is. And what I like to consider is much like a family, right? There's patriarchal and matriarchal influences that then perpetuate downstream to impact generations, right? That's how we can conceptualize Even sociocultural development of families of communities and organization is no different. oftentimes when there are challenges that are experienced, important to take a look in my perspective at the organizational leadership first, because they are both. overtly and inadvertently perpetuating aspects, feelings, you know, attributes downstream that are then impacting the entire organizational culture. I like to consider first and foremost, not, you know, only how are we creating challenges, but also who are we as leaders? What are we advocating for within our roles? What core values do we exhibit that are then being shown to the people that we're working with how are those things impacting The other executives, how are those things impacting the managers? How are those things impacting the employees and starting at the top of that hierarchy is often one of the most beneficial aspects that I've seen because it inadvertently also perpetuates greater change downstream as well.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:And are there any You're in your work and in your experience, and maybe you don't have an answer for this. I don't know. Are there any, like, character traits or things that you see regularly that create or that help to handle like a more positive. Environment for workplaces or organizations, like, are there certain attributes that that leaders have in general, right? Everybody's different. Everybody's. But like, are there certain things you start to see over time that you're like, yeah, this is, this is what makes a good leader or this is what makes a good problem solver in this situation?
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:Absolutely. for me, what that kind of comes back to is this aspect of servant leadership that I like to consider when I work with organizations, which is the focus of really psychologically relevant tools within the domain of leadership. Because, know, for a very long period of time, as we consider the development of organizations within our nation and maybe beyond, this who is dominating, who is creating and sharing. And I think for the modern workplace, currently people don't respond well to being told what to do. Right.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:tell me. Don't tell me. Don't tell me.
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:sounds completely correct. I hate being told what to do. Don't tell me what to do. I'm a grown ass woman. I'll do what I want.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Exactly.
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:And within the organizational framework, right? maybe general assumption is that an employee does what the leader asks. And there's this monolithic relationship there. But what I often like to focus on and what I've recognized is the most beneficial for more modern workspaces is focus on this servant leadership, where we place ourselves at the same level as the employee who we want to gain allegiance with, who we want to develop collaboration with. And in that process, what I find is that leaders who are a lot more conscious of their employees, emotional wellbeing, Who are a lot more able to express humility, even in the face of leadership and listen before they lead. It gives us an opportunity to accomplish maybe the goal that we've always wanted to accomplish in work in a way that also cultivates a sense of empowerment for employees, because. It's a colloquial reference I'm making, but I'm pretty sure that a lot of people can witness it in their professional experiences. employee will always work harder when they feel a sense of ownership and alignment with the work that they are doing as opposed to feeling as if, Hey, clock in, do this, go home, be quiet. Thank you. So being able to develop that collaborative and empowering relationship oftentimes will kind of spearhead organizations towards the greater profitability and work that they want from their employees, simply seeing them as people in front of them and not. Cogs within a larger ecosystem
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:So I'm thinking about this just like tangibly. So let's say there's a department leader. He's got four, he or she has four people working with them that all kind of have the same role. And so I think what would be important would be to define the mission to define like the job, like this is, this is what we're here to do in the day. This is our mission. Here's our core values. We've all bought into this. We've kind of done this together. Like, this is what we've decided is our goal. And we've got the worker bees that all can accomplish that goal in the way that That works best for them, like playing on their strengths and putting their own twist on it. And then they've got this leader who's here saying, okay, keeping the goal and the mission in front of them, but then showing up and saying, how do I support you to achieve this? Like what resources can I provide to make you, your job, your mission easier? do you need help with today? And like, then also kind of developing that person and, and connecting with that person. Would that be kind of like a tangible way to go about what you just described?
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:precisely. And what really resonates there in your explanation of that is supporting the growth of the people that you are working with so they can also become leaders in their own right, then they take greater ownership and simultaneously greater accountability. Over their role in fulfilling that larger organizational mission.
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:Okay. So let's say we have that organization and that's, that's happening and that department works closely with another department. And maybe one of those worker bees that you're supporting and trying to develop, having conflict with another, Like a consistent conflict with another department or another person in another department. What sort of tools then would, as a leader, you recommend they provide and like a scenario like that?
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:Okay. So resolving conflict amongst workers and that perspective, I would consider that the compassion driven tools still ring true.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Mm hmm.
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:as we were speaking about earlier. Sometimes in solving a problem, we consider what an ideal solution would be before understanding the unique elements of the problem. So what I would suggest for leaders who find themselves guiding individuals who are experiencing conflict, maybe laterally within an organization, I would really encourage to understand what is the challenge and there I make this strong connection to the work that I do therapeutically and what I recognize in relationships, whether they're romantic, platonic, familial. A lot of challenges and conflicts stem from not only a lack of understanding of someone else's experience or a situation, but a strong and almost unrelenting connection to our own ego identification of what we know to be true.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Mm hmm. I
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:of constriction on our own understanding. really creates conflict and a barrier to even understanding what can be showing up for someone else. So I would really encourage some open communication and dialogue and radical acceptance of perspectives that might be different from your own and how people might be saying the same thing in different ways.
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:Yes. I think what you just described is the conflict that will be happening for the next two and a half, three months while we get to November the first Tuesday in November for election year. Like just the, like these different polarized sides. It's like this person has this lived experience that's formed and shaped their perspective. And then this person. Has a different lived experience and is living in their own ego. And like, how can you not understand me? And really probably what it ultimately comes down to is just lived experiences. And then like, we're all kind of operating out of fear when it comes to, to this sort of thing. So it would have to take someone willing to like overcome, like if you're fighting with uncle at the dinner table for the next three months, like you'd really have to have the radical acceptance of understanding, like this person has had a different lived experience than I have and acknowledge that first and then develop, like you said, your ideal solution. And so like radical acceptance, owning your part, and then they're just also, and those scenarios may not be the ideal solution is not having conversations about it,
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:And your solution is don't go to that dinner. Don't go to that dinner without alcohol. We don't need that in our life. One of the,
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:it to December.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:yeah, I've been writing notes down here. Because I, a lot of things that you're saying are, are really resonating with me. And one of the things that you said was listen before you, before you read. Or listen before you and I think even in these situations, Cheryl, when you're talking about, like, 2 employees that are having a situation you know, I think I've been in leadership and I've, I've you know, had to manage up to upwards of 50 people at 1 time. And so much of that to your point is like people bring conflict in, but a lot of times that conflict is coming from something else, right? It's like, there's something happening at home or there's some situation we don't know about, or, you know, this person had a bad day coming in and then somebody else was like, Hey, how come you didn't turn in the report? I asked you. And then that person is like. Okay. You know, explodes, but to your point of like really leading with compassion and leading, you know, and listening, I think, you know, I think there has been an a kind of archaic version of leadership where you're just talking and you're telling and you're ordering, right. But, but what, what I'm hearing you say is just like, if we're actually And listening and providing whatever tools we can for the people who work for us to be more efficient. We're actually going to be more efficient and we're actually going to be more profitable, right? Especially if you're working in a situation where you've got salaried employees to your point, like they come in, they could sit at their desk all day and think, bonk, do nothing and then leave. Or if you're supporting somebody who is, you know, and they're coming in and they're empowered and they're happy about being there and they let, they feel. Like they can take the reins and run with it. You're going to get so much more efficiency out of that person. And I, I'm not trying to say this, like we're all about money, but that's why we all work. Like there, I would be doing other things if I didn't have to work, even though I love my job. But I think that that is such an important lesson in leadership that, that is changing. Right. And I think it's changing generationally. I think there, you know, I don't, I'm an elder millennial, if you will. And I think boomers or that even some of the Gen Xers, like some of that generation have had to prove themselves through strength and authority. And I think now that we're seeing leadership change, right? Like Cheryl and I talk a lot about like, now women in our age are becoming CEOs and we're like, that's so weird because I'm like 25, but, but they are, and they're taking on leadership. Right. And I'd be interested to hear like your perspective on how that leadership change is affecting workplace change. And if you're seeing anything like that,
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:Yeah. Yeah. That resonates with me as you share this. This generational shift across the timeline of the leadership goal and how it impacts workplaces and really rang true for me or what was coming up as you were sharing that was leadership that isn't compassion driven is fear driven. Now, that doesn't mean that you are coming into work, you're anxious and fearful and reticent. It doesn't mean that, but this compassion driven leadership of this more modern workplace that maybe we're developing because we've recognized some of the ills of the past is that does not mean passive. It means I'm willing to be with and understand in order for me to perpetuate a stronger leadership strategy that both accomplishes my goal the goal that's aligned with what this person, this employee needs in their own work to feel valuable as well. And. I refer to as some of that fear driven leadership is that oftentimes when we think about individuals who lead from a more of an authoritarian standpoint, it might not be recognized openly, but digging beneath the surface. leading themselves, right? They are leading themselves within the context of the fearful about what will happen when people don't listen to me because I feel so attached that my strategy is the greatest way to lead. And even saying that out loud, that is not a leader. That is a fearful person who is. Projecting their own delusions outward and making employees and leaders beneath them suffer. Right? I think that's a big difference that I've recognized between not only leadership strategy. But just in the experience of speaking to individuals who are leaders, CEOs of their own companies, C suite members at large companies, employees who might be considered, you know, lower in this organizational hierarchy at certain organizations. And truly they give me to rely on through their real life navigation of some of these workplaces and recognizing what works and what doesn't.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:There's this. Real or Tik TOK or something. And it's this guy who's a millennial and he's like, you know, the Gen Z's or whomever really thought they were doing something when they were getting face tattoos and thought that they couldn't get into the workplace because they were getting face tattoos and now millennials are like, nah, man, we're cool, we're good, bring your face tattoo in, like we're good. Let's do the work, right? But I do see, I think we are starting to see as a society more emphasis on a change in leadership. And, you know, I think that that I heard this other thing the other day at the gym, this older, this older lady was like, you know, this generation just doesn't want to work and I don't agree. I think this, my generation and the next generation below. Know their worth and know their value and are unwilling to be bullied and unwilling to just be just to do what they're told. And I think that that is a hard thing if you're coming from an authoritarian type leadership. You don't want to be questioned. You don't want to be told, no, you don't want to have any other ideas. And now these like younger kids are coming in and they're like, actually, I can do this from home and I can work from home and it's no big deal. Actually, I am going to take that paid leave. Like, yes I am. And I'm not going to just,
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:minute of it?
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:yeah. And I think that that's really hopeful. Like that gives me a lot of like hope and excitement and passion for, you know, what. What that means for my kids when they enter the workforce or, you know, like in 20 years or whatever that 15 years, whatever that is. So, I don't know, like, I just not that we have to continue to talk about it, but I just think it's really. I think the work that you're doing in leading with compassion and starting with compassion and and leading with listening is. Such an important theme that we should carry out also like within probably relationships and parenting and, you know, like marriages and all of that. It's, it's good stuff, man. It's good stuff.
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:Let's shift gears to what you mentioned you're passionate about. So you're passionate about the different parts of self. Can you talk to us about what that means and, and what it is and how we can leverage that?
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So in my work, you know, as you had shared, there is trauma informed and it's mindfulness based and of the philosophies that I'll pull on is internal family systems, and it's a therapeutic philosophy developed by Richard Schwartz, and it's with this foundation that as we consider a family ecosystem, right, there's different parts of the family. People who might lead people who might follow people who might express different elements of what create this family culture. what he asserts is that within ourselves, we also have our own internal ecosystem. oftentimes. Sometimes we recognize the parts that develop based on the pain that we've experienced. So oftentimes, let's say we go through something incredibly challenging and we don't necessarily know how to cope with it at the time, maybe because we were too young to understand what coping was. Maybe it was beyond our realm of possibility to be able to handle. what will happen within us is that we develop parts to protect ourselves. And Richard Schwartz identifies those as these protective parts. He calls them firefighters and managers. That will then support us in coping as we navigate throughout the world. But oftentimes those protective parts don't represent the authentic self, right? They represent that's had to develop because of intense pain that we've had to navigate through. in my work with clients individually, What I aim to support them in understanding because they know what's best, right? I'm not giving clients understanding about themselves. They already know that they just need some support in clearing some of the debris off of the road. And we talk through what pain are you holding on to that is unresolved? What sort of protectors or bodyguards do you develop to keep yourself safe from that pain? how does keeping yourself safe sometimes limit you from truly experiencing possibility, growth, and development within your life?
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Yeah. I mean, that becomes very limiting, right? Like, if you're constantly having a feeling of keeping yourself safe, you're, you're in. Instinctively keeping yourself back. Right? Like, that's what I would,
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:Yeah.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:you know, like, not,
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:Yeah. To visualize it. It'd be like, Exactly. Always like a step backwards bracing rather than leaning in potentially and being able to grow.
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:Yeah. One of the things I always reference in sessions with clients that talk about this paradigm is I reference clients who've told me before they can't find a good relationship, or they can't find a healthy X, or they can't find a good Y. And I like to make a joke. Sometimes people laugh at it. Sometimes people don't. And I say, well, your belief is
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:Sometimes they cry.
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:if you aren't going to find it, you aren't going to find it done. Our work is done, right?
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:Right. Might as well wrap it up.
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:Yeah, exactly. But what I like to allow people to consider within that metaphor is. Let's say, for example, we have experienced a lot of relational pain. And that relational pain feels hard. It feels heavy. It feels, you know, We can explain it in so many different ways based on our individual experiences, and we don't want to feel that. So what we will do in response to that is will develop defensive characteristics to protect ourself from pain, which we believe will create the opportunity for relational growth and development to come toward us. But that protective part is both keeping the pain further away from us and it's also inhibiting us from developing positive relationships. Because if we've been conditioned to understand that vulnerability will automatically create the inception of pain, why would we be vulnerable, right? It sounds good. Yes. I'll be a little bit disconnected and isolated. Okay. Until disconnection and isolation pushes away what you truly desire because you believe you are keeping yourself safe. And one of the most challenging things in that paradigm for clients is recognizing that leaving yourself for pain to happen and being present with what you might need to protect yourself in the moment. It's far greater than believing this narrative that says you will never accomplish what you desire because you never have that keeps you in a really negative detrimental cycle. And. We need support. We need community. We need validation, trust, love, and acceptance to be able to take that leap. Right. something that Ram Das has said before, and any questionable thoughts about Ram Das. Let's leave them at the periphery for a moment, but he says something that I really philosophically connect with. And he mentions. comes a point in life where you would rather be open to the prospect of being hurt again than living dead. Just living underneath the, the narrative that you will never get what you desire, you will always experience pain. And human beings are incredibly powerful creatures and that belief truly becomes manifest within our lives, our relationships. our opportunities, the way we feel. It's, we create what we are experiencing and what we're living within.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:yeah. And I imagine,
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:this is resonating with my early twenties and how I chronically dated unavailable men. In one aspect or another, they just were not capable of connection. And it was because I, at that time did not feel worthy of connection. And I had to take the courageous step of looking deep in myself and understand why don't you feel worthy and then that. And then, then I was able to welcome like an actual legitimate relationship into my life.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:well, and I
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:Yeah.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:assume too, like, if you're coming from a place of not, of fear or protection or whatever, anything that shows up, you're afraid of, right? Like, even something good that shows up, you maybe can't even recognize that because you're constantly in this protection, uh, Like that's what you're, you have taught yourself or those are the walls that you've built up or whatever. Like it couldn't, and to your point, you're like, if I, I can't have anybody who's good, then no, you can't, you can't have anybody that's good because you're not even going to see the good because nobody's going to be, you know?
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:Yeah. It's, it's all interconnected here. All elements of our conversation. Even as we talk about ego identified, fear driven leaders in the workplace, right? As leaders of our own lives, every human being wants to be right.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Yes.
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:may not know that or might not admit that, but every human being wants to be right, and they want to know confidently what they know. And that's a little bit of a trick bag, because if we've become identified to a negative narrative, That says we will not, we won't be able to, we cannot because we want to know for certain and our ego wants to identify to be able to ground the self, we will find opportunities that will verify that belief that we have, because even if it means hurting ourselves. We are right and oftentimes when it comes to individuals who experience trauma, the elements of trauma that we've recognized in our lives have become the very definitions of who we are. And it's important to recognize that even in the, the therapeutic work that I facilitate with clients, that's a courageous journey to take. Because. something has been integrated to yourself, that you're attached to able to believe in something different, feels like letting a piece of yourself go, but the important question, you know, that I ask my clients, and it's a long journey to get there in some cases, but it's important to question the narratives that you've become attached to let's contemplate all the positive benefits of and there may be very little. To none, right? the prospect of something new is scary because it means we have to develop new skills. have to develop new responsibility and we have to take. new found agency over our lives, which is challenging because as sad as it can sound, it's easy to fall into a cyclic relationship with just diminishing ourselves in finding confidence there. And it's much harder to say, well, you know what, maybe I can experience something new, maybe life can actually look different for me that takes developing. Another part of yourself that's far more courageous than it is fearful.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:And you have to be willing to be wrong. Right? Like that's, that's that part of it, right? If you're constantly having to be right and your ego or, you know, whatever is trying to always make you write about whatever this, You know, you called it a cyclical or a circuit or whatever it is that you're protecting yourself from in order for that next step. I would assume you have to be willing to be wrong about whatever this thing is that you. Set up, right? Like, if I'm not worthy of a man, a good man, if I can't get a good man, and I've told myself that over and over and over again, and I have to be right about that, then I have to willing to be wrong about that in order to get a good man. And that, I think is challenging for people because they don't want to be wrong. Want
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:Well, and this is also that idea that I keep hearing lately that is like, we can't necessarily trust all our own thoughts. Our thoughts aren't just truth. Like, you, you may be lying to yourself. And, um, And then what I'm also hearing you say is, and I do this without realizing what I'm doing, but like, I'm a chronic reframer. Like I will reframe a situation. I will reframe thoughts and switch them to the positive. And it's really that, that thing of breaking that cycle of the negative and the, story you've been telling yourself and just switching it to what you actually want it to be. It's fascinating. Do you do any EMDR? In your practice?
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:I do not do any EMDR. I do utilize the bilateral stimulation as a therapeutic tool with clients, which is a reductive the entire eight phase EMDR model, but it is very, very helpful. Even as you share this benefit of, Reframing our beliefs, right? Because of the hypotheses around the EMDR process is that as we utilize the bilateral stimulation, we're able to refine our cognitive process, which assists our objective reasoning, our objective functioning, our executive functioning. And we're better able to recognize the distinction between what is feeling based what is a factual reality of the lives that we're living within. And I use a lot of mindfulness based practices in order to get clients grounded in the right here, right now, because what I'll often find is that sometimes clients will live decades of their lives. affirming a narrative about who they thought they were, that they never take the time to actually discover who they are ever within their lifetime. And sometimes that requires, this is simply stating a very complex process, but that requires just stopping for a moment, right? To stop and recognize what sort of movies, metaphorically, are playing in our mind and what aspects of our reality are we just quite literally ignoring because we've built a perpetual process of not truly living within the right here. right now.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:In case there's listeners that don't know what it is, just, we don't have to go into a deep, but what is EMDR? Like, just what does it stand for? Because we might have people who don't.
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:I, excuse me, I movement desensitization, which is one of the most complicated words for me to and reprocessing. So essentially what EMDR will use is So pertaining to different sides of the body, whether that's tracing a finger, tracing a light, using some somatic response, like maybe a tapper to stimulate opposite sides of the body. And the hypothesis there is that when we are actively doing that bilateral stimulation, it disempowers this connection to the negative thought based narratives that we're replaying. And it gives us an opportunity to step into empowerment and encouragement right here, right now through that process.
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:Thank you Colleen. When I did it, I was, like, my eyes to trauma that I didn't realize I was carrying. like, okay, then now I can overcome that. Now I can understand it and I can overcome that. Where, uh, I think because I am such an optimist and such a positive person, and I don't want to feel negative feelings. I do a really good job of burying those and like some of the deepest trauma that I experienced in my life. I didn't even identify trauma because I was trying to protect myself from it, but I couldn't heal from it. And I was, as you described, putting up that defense all the time against these things that I didn't even realize were based on this other trauma that had, you know, I just needed to. understand it to be able to reshape it. And it was so powerful. I did it once. My therapist probably thinks I don't like her cause I didn't come back after that, but it was just very effective.
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:Yeah, yeah. I've also done EMDR as well in the past as a client and it is very, very beneficial. It's very, very eye opening, as you mentioned. What I use now is a modality called trauma focused cognitive behavioral therapy, and in processing the narrative of some of the trauma, we also get to experience the benefit that negative emotions hold for us. And I think initially. That can feel like a challenging perspective to own, I often encourage my clients, let's say case in point who are experiencing a lot of anxiety or depression. We need not get lost in the emotional experience of those things, but it is important to recognize what they might be communicating to you because anxiety can be both debilitating and debilitating. And it could be an indication of things you might be genuinely overlooking, and maybe that visceral emotional experience attempting to bring something to the surface for you that you are attempting to actively ignore. It might not be the case for every single person, every single time. But I do strongly believe, have experienced, and have recognized in my sessions with clients that understanding the language that our emotions are speaking, we get the opportunity to better integrate those emotional experiences to be supportive to us, as opposed to debilitating to us.
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:What is one of your top or favorite ways to induce mindfulness in a patient?
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:One of my favorite ways to do mindfulness, I have two, and it's hard to pick between the two, but really enjoy doing guided meditations with clients because will give them the opportunity to not think about thinking about what they're thinking about. just ask them to focus on my voice. Right. As we guide them through this mindful process of really deep recognition of what's happening right here. Right now. I find that after a guided meditative practice, clients begin to develop the courage to do it on their own and to feel a lot safer with being steel because for a lot of. Trauma clients being still being quiet is one of the most unsafe places, oftentimes being able to facilitate that mindfulness meditation alongside someone who can really be supportive to you in that process begins to develop this sort of social attunement process where we cultivate trust, where we cultivate acceptance for what this moment is. And mindful practice is. Yoga. And I really like to encourage clients to find maybe communal classes. There's a bunch of free classes on YouTube. There's a lot of ways you can access yoga. And the reason I suggest that for clients for mindfulness is it trains our body to be within discomfort in a comfortable way. And what you'll often hear is. In a yoga class, right? Breathe through this pose. Breathe with this pose. Focus on your breath because as you're maybe contorting your body, as it might feel like to some people, mentally experiencing this bilateral of or tension while also cultivating a space of relaxation through the practice of focusing on the breath. And as I'm sure we've all colloquially heard before, we have the opportunity to take that off of the mat. And if my body can be with tension, As I'm experiencing a restorative breath, what might that mean when I'm at my desk and I'm experiencing stress or anxiousness? Can I also breathe through that as well? Because in truth, emotions last about 30 minutes, maybe 45. And anything beyond that is us saying, okay, I want that now. I'm going to hold it really close until I'm ready to let it go. And sometimes just breathing through it allows the emotion to come and go, you know?
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:that is really cool. I feel like there's definitely some times where I'm like. And it's so interesting because I'm kind of like, well, I must be like kind of a weirdo because there's definitely times where I'm like really stressed out for a short period of time. And then I'm like, or like feeling a feeling for, and then it goes away. And just that idea of like, these emotions have just like, they don't last forever and they can come and go and whatever. And what makes me feel a little bit more normal than like, am I like a psycho who isn't feeling feelings, you know?
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:No, you're healthy.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Okay. I'm sorry.
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:you're processing and moving through your emotions
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Well,
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:generally, I generally can as well, but there's been the occasional things that get me that just like, hold on. And that is where, when I seek additional support, like services like Charin's. So Charin, if someone wanted to work with you, what does that look like? Are you remote? Where do you work? Tell me everything. How can we connect?
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:Yes. Yes. So for individual clients that want to work with me, they can visit charambashier. com. And from that point, what I like to do is schedule a consultation. I like to essentially just, Talk with my clients, much like we're doing here today, just discussing what's important to you, what's valuable to you, what are you struggling with? What would you like life to look like? And it's this really collaborative process of planning a treatment modality that will work best for clients in their lives. I do all of my services virtual. So it's really easy to get in touch, really easy to kind of squeeze it in. Cause I know a lot of people are incredibly busy in this day and age. I don't know if that'll ever not be the case, but that virtual work allows me to really be where my clients need me to be in the moment. And in terms of organizational work same place, charambashier. com. And that's a little bit different, right? I like to come out to offices to facilitate that discovery call and maybe spend an hour or two within your space, maybe meet some of the people that you work with, learn a little bit more about your organization. And my biggest focus for individual and organizational work is. needs to be value aligned, right? We need to be on the same page and it's a consistent practice of collaboration. So I never claim to know more than clients or organizations know about themselves, I do have a very integrated toolkit of strategies that can move you forward and allow you to maybe accomplish your goals a little bit. Yes.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Thank you so much for being here.
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:Colleen and I are on the same page today.
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:me.
cheryl_1_08-16-2024_102811:Thank you so much for being here. And we'll share all of your your website in our show notes, so anybody can connect with you. So thank you so much Charyn.
colleen_1_08-16-2024_132811:Thanks
squadcaster-1752_1_08-16-2024_112811:you. Thank you.
