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We’re Doing this Right. Right?
Wait, that's not normals? Pelvic Floor Health with Lauren Edwards OT - REPLAY
Text us! We know you feel like part of the conversation! We want to hear your input!
What an educational and eye opening episode, with Pelvic Floor Specialist Lauren Edwards OT.
Drawing from her own traumatic childbirth experiences, Lauren shares how she transformed her career and specialized in pelvic floor rehabilitation to help women overcome physical, emotional, and psychological challenges.
Lauren explains how the lack of pelvic floor mobility during childbirth can lead to complications and highlights the importance of an evidence-based, holistic approach to tackle these issues.
The episode details Lauren's treatment procedures, deep-diving into the physiology of childbirth, the importance of normal bowel and bladder movements, and the need for correct breathing techniques.
Lauren also explains different types of incontinence, pooping habits, pelvic pain, the impact of perinatal stress on the pelvic floor, and the repercussions of untreated pelvic floor dysfunction.
The episode concludes with Lauren discussing potential red flags indicating pelvic floor dysfunction and how to seek proper treatment.
If you are anything like Colleen and I, you will finish this episode with insights into what things might actually not be normal, and have a great idea of where to start to fix them!
Find out more about Lauren Edwards at her website: https://www.edwardspelvic.com/
And follow along with her on instagram @LaurenEdwardsPelvic
Now the legal stuff:
Disclaimer:
Please note that the content provided in this episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. We do not offer medical advice or endorse any specific treatments or diagnostic approaches for any condition. If you have or suspect you may have a health problem, please consult your doctor or a qualified pelvic floor specialist. Do not disregard professional medical advice or delay seeking it because of something you have heard in this episode. The opinions expressed in this episode are solely the educational insights of the contributors and should not be taken as medical guidance.
just because it's common doesn't mean it's normal. And normal should feel better than this
Cheryl:Okay. Hello everybody. Welcome back to another episode of We're Doing This, right, right
Colleen:Hello? Hello?
Cheryl:Hi Colleen. And you guys today we have a really awesome guest. Lauren Edwards is here. Say hello, Lauren
Lauren Edwards:Hi.
Cheryl:Lauren Edwards. I met Lauren Edwards between my second and third baby. She is a pelvic floor rehabilitation expert. she became interested in rehabilitation after experience her. Experiencing her own firsthand trauma during childbirth, and the lasting impacts that that had on her physical, emotional, and psychological health. As a trained occupational therapist, Lauren understands the value of an evidence-based, holistic approach to understanding a very intimate and often misunderstood component of the female body. She provides comfort, confidence, and understanding to help. You regain strength control starting with your pelvic floor. So I met Lauren because when I was pregnant with my second daughter Emmy, I, I've got suspicions about what was going on, but basically I had a chronic cough through the entirety of my pregnancy with my second child. And the amount of times I peed my pants was stupid. It was stupid to the point where I literally, if I had to go to work, started wearing, depends because I couldn't stop the cough and I couldn't stop the peeing and I couldn't stay home
Lauren Edwards:I remember you telling me that.
Cheryl:Yeah. I was like, I dunno what else to do.
Lauren Edwards:I remember the Depends vividly
Cheryl:Yeah. So, um, I went to my ob, GYN after I delivered my daughter and I said I'd like a referral to a pelvic floor specialist. I only knew about this because, out to Brittany Pore, who is like all things baby, postpartum, perinatal, all the things. And she's like, you, you gotta, you gotta see Lauren about your pelvic floor. You gotta see Lauren about your pelvic floor. So I asked for the referral from my OB, GYN, and she says to me, well, don't you want another baby? Why don't you just wait till you have your next baby and then go? And I was like, oh, actually.
Lauren Edwards:My favorite.
Cheryl:Yeah, and I love, I love my doctor, don't get me wrong. She
Colleen:that seems like really bad.
Cheryl:on this one. Um, I'm like, well, I don't particularly wanna be like peeing my pants until my next baby comes out. I've got some postpartum to get through here, and then I have another pregnancy and like, oh my God, how weak will my pelvic floor be by the end of all of that. So, no, I, I urged and pushed for the referral right then, which ladies, you can do that. You can tell your doctor, no, I want this now. And I encourage you all to do that. So I asked for it and I met Lauren and it was incredible. She was amazing. Super comfortable experience, very intimate as mentioned before, but It was incredible. And what I learned, I learned a lot of things in that. But what, what I found really interesting was I thought I was like squeezing and doing a Kegel, and she had these biofeedback sensors on the inside of me and she could see that like I squeezed and I still thought I was squeezing, but I had no endurance. And the muscle just like let go after a second, which was why I could cough once and not pee. But if I coughed twice, I was fucked and was peeing my pants. So Lauren saved my life on that I probably need to revisit. But Lauren, why don't you tell us about you a little bit now that people know that you're here to help me stop pee my pants.
Lauren Edwards:Uh, sure. So I have been an OT for over like 15 years, and I've been in the hospital setting. I had my son, which is who you referenced having had the, traumatic childbirth with, essentially they had found a defect in utero when I was 32 or 34 weeks pregnant. So I was at Santa Barbara at the time. I had to relocate to la. And I really had no idea about my pelvic floor. I actually was having a relatively smooth pregnancy, so I didn't have a lot of complaints in that department. But, I had to deliver my son after a 42 hour induction in a surgical suite with 35 people present. So he had his own team and I had my own team. was a very, what I would call, like patriarchal system. You got an epidural, you were given your pain meds, you got an e episiotomy end of story. Like there wasn't a lot of conversation. There wasn't, can I. Let me give you some education and offer you something, and it was, I'm gonna do this on you, so. I just wanted my baby safely Earth side. Um, I remember just giving everything I got. Now looking back, I didn't know how to push a baby out and that's a whole nother conversation, but in the end, I was just leaking. I had pain. Um, my episiotomy would pull every time I was seated, so I actually went up going to a pelvic floor therapist who. Was like, okay. Yeah. And the first thing she said to me is, you're an ot. I said, yeah. So it's very different. There's physical therapists and OTs. We believe, we all share the same space, but, um, typically PTs have dominated the pelvic health world. And she said, I've always wanted an OT to work for me. I wanna train you. And I was like. Okay, let's do it. It was just kind of serendipitous and it, and it really worked. Um, and so that started my journey. I was able to recovery from predominantly, um, stress incontinence, which you were describing as well. So there's a lot of different types of incontinence, which really kind of gets people's head spinning. Um, stress incontinence being the most common. And so one of the things that I took away from my visit was like, oh, my pelvic floor is actually not weak. It's too tight. And like you mentioned, I didn't have any endurance and I had no coordination. And then, uh, one of the other biggest issues was my cord. And at work I had just like absolutely shock core. And so what I've learned now, I've been doing this for almost six years, is that. It's so much bigger than the floor, right? And it's so, there's so many factors. And so these clients will come in now and be like, I didn't know you look at my rib cage and how I breathe and you know, what is my stress level Like, like I'm talking through being a new mom or maybe not being a mom, but what are some events that have happened in your life, right? And it's so, so that's what's been cool is I've watched myself. Move from a very like, clear cut biomechanical approach, which is very much like what does the muscle do to, like, who's in, who's in the house and who's the neighbors and who's causing the problems. Um, and one of my biggest taglines is just because it's common doesn't mean it's normal. And normal should feel better than this. So a lot of times they'll say in your case, well, it's normal. You're pregnant, you've had babies before. It's normal that you're leaking. It's not, it's common, but it's not normal. And so that's always been my big soap box I stand on for most of that.
Cheryl:And in addition to it not being normal is there's something you can do about it,
Lauren Edwards:Right,
Cheryl:don't.
Colleen:Well, and I think that's such an interesting differentiation between common and normal. Like what? Because you hear it all the time. Like it's normal. It's normal to pee your pants while you're pregnant. It's normal to jump on the trampoline and, and pee or whatever it is. Right? But I, but what I'm hearing you say is like, it's actually not normal. Like that's like, that's not normal, but it is so common that we're just, we're just accepting it as a normalcy,
Lauren Edwards:Yeah.
Colleen:and that's kind of insane, that we're just like, great, there's this massive problem that's happening for a majority of women and we're just gonna call it normal instead of Tackling that problem or making it like making something like your services more well known like,'cause I think there are a lot of women that don't even know that they should be seeing a pelvic floor specialist or even what that is, or even what that entails.
Lauren Edwards:Yeah, and one of my big moments too is that I feel like we're missing a huge group and that everyone, it's okay to talk about your problems when you've had a baby, but you don't get to talk about it before you have a baby. But the amount of women that come in who cannot conceive because pain or intercourse is painful, that they've been leaking since they were teens. There are so many risks. Factors for pelvic floor dysfunction that yes, a baby is probably the most common, whether it's a c-section or a vaginal birth. You have overworked your pelvic floor. But, um, being a high competitive athlete, whether you're doing gymnastics, dance, CrossFit, um, having a chronic cough, having been chronically constipated. A period of your life or your whole life having fallen on your tailbone, um, having a history of sexual or a verbal abuse. These are all risk factors. So what, what some poor women are doing is going to their obese, so shameful. You know, they're 20 and they're being like, Hey, intercourse kind of hurts. Oh, honey, just wait until you have a baby. It'll widen it up. You know, it's all this very dismissive. And kind of like I say like patriarchal.'cause it's not about us, right? It's not about women. But there are so many things we can improve in the quality of life if we just advocate for ourselves. And I will say, Cheryl mentioned like, oh, my OB had a really fight. You can self-refer. Most insurance companies let you. And actually I run a cash based practice for this reason. You call me, you come in like there's no, no one's in our way. Obviously financial, but you don't need a referral for a lot of services. So it's important for people to know that as well.
Cheryl:That's good to know too. And how, um, I guess cooperative is insurance in general for your patients. Have you found.
Lauren Edwards:Um, to be honest, they can be pretty, if you've, if you've had a child or had a surgery, your out of pocket's been met and so they will then reimburse at a pretty high rate, like 75% of my services. There is a law and I wish I could Tell it off the top of my, um, head. But essentially, if you cannot get into an in-network provider within 30 days of receiving a referral, which is very impossible to do in this community, your insurance will then need to cover at a certain percentage for an out-of-network provider to meet your needs. So you can always really advocate for yourself. Yeah. So you call and just say, Hey, you know, or, um, I specialize in pregnancy, postpartum, and pain pain's. One of my like passions. And a lot of times you can just call and be like, Hey, there's no one in my area that does this except for this, this clinician, and that's who I wanna see. And they do have to respect that. You need a specialty, and that's what I do. Um, so sometimes it's just a matter of getting on the phone and being really annoying, but you can be provided with like a, a fancy receipt. We call it a super bill where you get reimbursed. I really believe, like I work myself at a job. I don't really want your guys' money that bad. I like to have a job make a living, but my goal is to get you better. So we try to be as concise as we can and really I put it on you like, Hey, this is your homework, and then I'm gonna coach you through that. So it is sometimes overwhelming to think about, oh my gosh, can be so much money. But at the end of the day, it's really just me putting these pieces in play and really just Educating people. Educat education is half of what I do. I'm sure Cheryl can note that, but just talking about this is what's normal, this is what's not, this is what pee peeing and pooping should feel like. People are like when I say like peeing is a passive activity. You sit on the toilet and pee should just happen. We shouldn't push, we shouldn't strain. We shouldn't dribble after we pee. And those are all little flags that are thrown up that are usually an indication of, um, dysfunction.
Colleen:That's so interesting. like, I've never thought about how I pee. And I was trying to like sit here and think like, how, how do I pee? How does it, how does it feel when I pee? But I don't know that it feels like what you're describing like I just.
Lauren Edwards:Yeah, a lot of people wanna push like they a, they got places to be. There's a kid scream and a dog barking, a husband, you know, doing something. So, um, most people are also blown away when I explain to them that pooping is, you can't, should not hold your breath and you should not squeeze your poop out. You should just inhale and the rectum does
Colleen:my God. Well, I need to see you. What's happening, What the hell,
Cheryl:Well, and.
Lauren Edwards:Everyone should own a squatty potty.
Colleen:yeah.
Cheryl:the other really, interesting thing I learned was what our belly and our diaphragm should be doing when we're breathing. So can you tell us that, because I don't understand how everybody's wires get crossed on this.
Lauren Edwards:Sure Well, I will say I should have brought more props I brought down. I'm sitting in my house, but, essentially we are built like a little canister. So the top of us is our respiratory diaphragm and the bottom is our pelvic floor. So before we get constipated or have anxiety or our parents'. Push us to pee before we leave the house. When we're a kid, we have this beautiful system is when we inhale, we let everything go down and then as we exhale it comes up. So I'll have women come in and be like, oh, I do Kegels all the time, Lauren. I'm really good at'em. I'm like, great. Hit me with them and the first thing they do is, and suck up. And I go, well, that was really fun, but no muscle participated other than your diaphragm lifting up on your pelvic floor. The actual muscles were just like, okay, here we go. Right? Like they didn't participate. So what we spend most of our time talking about is, can you breathe in and let your pelvic floor drop out? So that should feel like almost like a bearing down or a bulging. And then when you exhale and contract, that's your actual Kegel. You won't catch me off like often, uh, prescribing those. But that's how the system is designed to work. And what happens is we come from a sucking in culture where we are always sucking in the lower abdomen, so that doesn't let the diaphragm do its job. So we naturally have locked down the pelvic floor by not letting the abdomen move freely. Plus, a lot of times we just don't breathe effectively. So the diaphragm, one of the first things I'll do is release your diaphragm so that your diaphragm can get outta your rib cage. You know, when you're, when you're pregnant, it thickens by 50%. And your ribcage, I'm sure you can all relate. You went to go put on your old bra and you were like, uh, so now my ribcage is bigger. Right? It's not just your boobs, it's your ribcage. And it's because the diaphragm got so big.'cause it was trying to keep your organs down. But now instead of having this cute pliable, you know. Balloon looking concept. It's really thick and hard. So that's another issue is we're breastfeeding, we're hunched, we're carrying our baby around, and that diaphragm now is not moving. So the pelvic floor is doing the exact same thing. So one of the best things you can do is practice diaphragmatic breathing.
Colleen:Well, and I think when you talked about the ribs like that has been, I know for me personally, like when that, even like before I had kids, you carry stress. Like I would carry stress and I feel like my ribs were always like up and I actually, I used to work at a physical therapy clinic and I had a PT once released my Ribs. Like she did this tech myofascial technique where, and my ribs went from like flared out to down for the first time in my like, adult life. And I have wanted someone to do that for me post three children, like for ages.'cause I just feel like there's, they're up, right? Like, it's hard to explain, but they just feel like they're up and I need them to come down. And I, and I had A A chiropractor one time that told me that we carry that that rib, our rib cage is emotional and we carry a lot of stress in our rib cage.
Lauren Edwards:I believe that. Yeah,
Colleen:And I was like, wow, I feel that much because what, what all you're saying? You know? And Cheryl and I had, I have three children also. I had them in a similar time period. And it's like your body just becomes this machine that is pliable and will do whatever it wants. Needs. Basically, we'll do whatever it needs, to, to, make these babies and make them comfortable. Right. And I had, my middle son was 20, 23 inches long. Like, he was huge. So I just, I feel like, I'm like, what happened inside here? Like, is everything okay? And like,
Lauren Edwards:It, it typically is not It's, uh, you're so like, you're sore. And actually with c-section. You don't get the luck of the baby sucking your organs back home because that's what they do. And I know this is a really gross analogy, but if I put a tampon in a, um, ketchup bottle and I pulled it out, all the ketchup would come down right? That's what happens when the baby comes out vaginally. So you're a little more set up for success, but many women have to have a cesarean and the organs are just dropped back where they look like they belong and then you carry on. Right? And so that's another thing we work on our, I specifically am trained in is visceral mobilization. So like quieting the bowels down, pudding the stomach back, everyone needs to rest. Otherwise, you know, we have a very important nerve. It's called our vagus nerve, and it runs, um, the base of our skull pretty much all the way through. It goes behind our uterus and our vagus nerve's. The one who says, run, go. Somebody's chasing you. Or it's the nerve that says like, Ugh, I'm warm. I'm sitting on a beach chair. My kids are doing great. And you feel that calmness. The problem is most of us have dysregulation of a vagus nerve, so. Then with that disruption of the baby, the, and birth is traumatic. It can be the most beautiful birth in the world, but you have had so much happen to tissues and to organs and to muscles that that nerve sometimes never quiets down. So that's when we also see a lot of anxiety, um, more nausea. Um, also feeling like you're gonna faint when you poop because those are type of things of vagus nerve kicking on. So a lot of times we talk about that as well because it has a huge impact in being while you're in birth as well as postpartum.
Cheryl:Wow, mind blown over here,
Colleen:Somebody. fix. I'm coming. I'm coming to California. Just fix all my organs for me. Okay? Because
Lauren Edwards:Yeah, and that's a tricky, like, it is tricky to find people Um, but I just always say like, we know our bodies best and kind of what you said, like we are mothers and we are machines and we push out this baby, we tear sometimes fourth degree, which means we went through our rectum and someone handed you a baby with a couple stitches and said. Right, and you do it because you have other kids at home, but the problem is the pelvic floor will show up. It's like, cool, I've got it. Here's the problem. The likelihood, let's say you leaked in pregnancy, so you had stress incontinence, and your doctor said, eh, it's totally normal. And then you have the baby, you're like, oh my gosh. The stress incontinence is gone. Two things. One, your pelvic floor just got so traumatized, it locked down really tight so you can't leak for a period of time. The this current statistic is a woman that leaks in pregnancy but does not leak in postpartum, has an 85% chance of complete incontinence in menopause.
Colleen:Well, that is rude That is.
Lauren Edwards:So that's what we're trying to change is like, yes, your body adapts, but you're young, you have estrogen, you have progesterone. Your testosterone's great'cause you're 30, 40. When you start to get in perimenopause, you don't have those hormones helping you and your pelvic floor's done. And everyone's like, cool, we're we're done. And that's when we see a lot of crisis too. So I try to really say like, I know you have a lot going on and I know your symptoms got better, but they're hiding and they're waiting for me to come find them. And you'd rather me find them now than find them when you're 50 and you're losing control of your stool and your bladder.
Cheryl:Is it common to lose control of your stool as well as you get there?
Lauren Edwards:with, um, poorly treated tears. So anything beyond a grade two. Um, so if you think about grade two is pretty much into the perineal body and a little bit into the muscle. Grade three is that you go into the external sphincter of your anus, and grade four is into your rectum. Anything beyond a two, the likelihood is higher because you damaged the supporting structures to your bowels. But again, at and when we're young and healthy, for the most part, we can compensate. But compensation finally gives up.
Cheryl:I can't wait to do the video clips of this episode because the facial expressions, as you're like describing, some of these things are just like, it's so much pain. Just feel so sad for people because. I've heard a lot about like incontinence, but I've never heard anybody talk about like problems with their stool and losing control of that. And it's because it's like nobody wants to talk about that. We've got.
Lauren Edwards:I will tell you the number one the number one postpartum complaint from women. Um, I have a little survey of questions is, um, we call it seq l smearing. So you wipe and you wipe, and you wipe and you wipe. You should wipe twice. If you're wiping and wiping and wiping, there's a problem. If you're losing gas from your rectum, it's a problem.
Colleen:What does that mean?
Cheryl:oh, that's not just normal.
Colleen:that mean?
Cheryl:just not funny.
Lauren Edwards:I mean, you, you should fart, but you shouldn't be Like walking You shouldn't be like walking across the hall and be like, whoopsie, that one snuck out.'cause
Cheryl:Oh, the
Lauren Edwards:somebody's not doing this. Yes, crop
Cheryl:like the joke about grandma, grandma crop dusting through the
Lauren Edwards:Yes,
Cheryl:because grandma didn't ever address her tear she had. Okay, that's fascinating. So after I had my kids, I thought something went wrong down there because of this thing you're describing like the, like Needing to wipe and wipe and wipe. And I was like, I don't know, maybe I have like, maybe I prolapsed. Maybe there was something like that. Like maybe something's not structurally right down there anymore. We got the um, tushy, like the bidet and that has solved that problem for me. But now I'm realizing there's a problem. I didn't realize I had
Lauren Edwards:Yeah,
Colleen:And right.
Lauren Edwards:it's like the number one that women are like, oh,
Colleen:Yeah. What the hell man?
Cheryl:Yeah. I told Brittany Palmer this one day. I'm surprised she didn't know this was an issue.'cause sh I was like, I don't know what's going on down there now. This is really gross. But I had no idea. That's fascinating.
Lauren Edwards:Yeah. So typically everyone's really focused on prolapse, which is when we let the, um. Essentially in your vaginal canal, your organs can come in. So most women are like, oh, my mom had a uterine prolapse, which that's pretty common, but, um, bladder prolapse is a 50% chance of bladder prolapse after birth. So, because it's, particularly if you hold your breath in, push. So if you didn't come see me for birth ed education, then what happened was you locked your pelvic floor down and your poor bladder just got taken through, baby took the bladder, and you just shoved it all out. Then the bladder was like, eh, I'm a little stretched. So a lot of women will be like, you know what? It feels like I'm wearing a bad tampon and it won't, it's like falling out. But I don't have a tampon in. Or I go to sit down and there's like a heavy bulge, or you know, I walk and I'll wear my kiddo in the ergo and then when I'm done, I wanna hold my vagina. Those are all signs of prolapse. But what we're kind of like skating over is like Well, I'm not leaking. It's fine. The problem is those have risk factors down the road and they really, um, impact your ability to empty your bladder and empty your bowels. Um, so those are always things that I'm kind of reminding people of is like, I hear that you wanna go running, you are a runner. You wanna run it one month postpartum, six weeks, I'm just gonna give you a big no because there's been so much work on those tissues that the likelihood of prolapse gets higher as you continue without proper education and training of the muscles.
Cheryl:Okay, on this comment of six weeks, how do you feel about sex six weeks after having a baby?
Lauren Edwards:So it depends. One, if your provider did not examine you, did not check your stitches, did not look at your tear, did not look at the tissue quality. When we are breastfeeding in particular, our estrogen drops our pore. Sad vaginas do not like that. So your OB should be looking at all those things. So if they come in and say, Hey, how are you doing? Did your bleeding stop? Are you breastfeeding? Are you depressed? Cool. And they leave. You call'em back in and say, oh, could you do an exam? I'd like you to check my tear, a episiotomy scar, whatever it is. I'd like you to screen me for prolapse. And then I, if I'm cleared for intercourse and it's painful, what do I do? Because a lot of times it's have some more tequila. Use a bunch of lube, make your husband work harder for it. But if your muscles are tight and there's no estrogen providing lubrication, you got no chance, right? And so we talk a lot about, okay, is it the tear? Is it the muscles themselves being too tight? Or do we not have enough lube? All three, some or your poor pelvic floor's been traumatized and so it doesn't want to do it. So we have to then talk about how do we make it, wanna do it, how do we help it feel safe and help the tissues want to be aroused? That's half the problem.
Colleen:I am gonna go ahead and say my answer is absolutely no Like, don't come near me at six weeks. Like absolutely not. Like,
Lauren Edwards:Yeah.
Colleen:no,
Lauren Edwards:You know, six weeks is created off the idea It's created off the idea that you can't get an infection anymore. That's what it is. That's what the six weeks clearance is, is, that your cervix has closed enough that your husband or whoever, whatever's coming in, can't introduce an infection. That's the only thing we know. It clears you for.
Colleen:Okay. Well, I don't like that rule and I think it should be longer because get away from me. Like my, I mean, like, it's, honestly, it's, I mean, good for anybody who feels really great at six weeks, but at six weeks, like I was like a, a deflated balloon that was saggy and leaking and tired and like emotional, like nothing felt good about any of that situation. Like go away.
Cheryl:I have an alternative. perspective on that. I was so like lonely in my motherhood that like I desperately wanted that connection with my husband and like needed to have like that grownup time earlier than probably most not because I was like needing arousal or anything. I just like really needed that very close. Connection because I was lonely and depressed and anxious in every other part of my world. so I just like needed to feel secure in that, I guess.
Lauren Edwards:Yeah, and for some people it's not a problem. Yeah. I mean there's so many factors when it comes down to it, but I would say after one or two, maybe three Maxs, and it's still uncomfortable. You have to do, you have to seek help. It's just, I always use the analogy, which like you say that, but I'm like, if I walked past you and I hit you three out of four times, like really hard, when you walk by me, are you gonna be like, Hey Lauren, or are you gonna be like this? Uh, right. Like you're gonna be fearful. Your pelvic floor is, it's not their first rodeo. You know, they did a study where they put sensors on women's pelvic floors and on their jaws and necks.'cause most women be like, oh, I, when I get stressed, I get really tense here. Right? And so they showed stressful images. The pelvic floor responded two times faster than any muscle in the body. And the clients weren't even aware of it. They had no idea it had happened. So before even. Like, you know, the kids are down, your body's already like, oh, he's gonna try to have sex with me and I already know it's not gonna go well. Right. And now you're already halfway out the door and the success is so far down. And then we just go down this darn rabbit hole and it's, it causes more issues than I can imagine. I mean, these poor mothers, right? They feel like failures. They can't be a good partner. They're having a hard time breastfeeding. Whatever it is, it's'cause it's not normal for it to feel good, especially if you've had. Any type of trauma to the pelvic floor.
Cheryl:So What are. a lot of the reasons that people come to see you?
Lauren Edwards:Um, I'd say the biggest issue is leaking of some sort. So typically, um, stress incontinence. Um, I will say a lot of moms come for just this generalized pelvic pain. Um, what a lot of people don't realize, I. Although it seems pretty common is that the pelvis makes such significant changes to allow a baby to get out that the then pelvis is stuck like that and it's not a normal position. The muscles are on stretch. There's a lot of catching and I will tell you most PRI postpartum women will say at my back left, SI joint hurts. It catches, I have a low back ache, or my tailbone
Colleen:Hello. Then I am most people because a hundred percent, like right now, I'm sitting here pushing on my back left SI joint because it hurts
Cheryl:Mine clicked mine clicks in and out.
Lauren Edwards:correct. So we call that the open, open birthing pattern. And then, um, myself or people who are trained like I am by the Holistic Birth Institute, close it back and people will get off the table and be like. What did you do? And I'm like, we just closed your pelvis, like your pelvis was open for a baby. And it can be 10 years later, 15 years later. So I'd say back pain is a big one. Painful intercourse as well. Um, and then I do a lot, I specialize in pain, uh, particularly endometriosis, um, which is my passion. You know, people who have chronic pelvic pain go seven to nine years before somebody tells them that it's probably endometriosis. Um, it's like the number one gaslit diagnosis I've seen, um, and it's heart. It's heartbreaking to me the amount of misinformation for women's health, particularly around the surrounding an issue that is life altering for these people. And all we're told is it's just really bad cramps. It's not, you have endometrial tissue growing outside your body in places. I mean, I've had clients have it on their diaphragm, on their So As is, and that is, I'm often the first person who says, has anyone told you you have endometriosis? And they look at me like, what? I've always thought that. And everyone said no. And I'm like, well, no one knows the truth.'cause you don't know. Unfortunately, you can only be diagnosed via surgery, which is rough, but there's often signs of that So that's another big passion of mine. Yeah. Is that.
Cheryl:and you can help people with that.
Lauren Edwards:Yeah, I mean, I always joke, I'm kind of like your coach or your, your guide. Um, I try to get you in touch with the best surgeons. There's not many. There's about two in California that we trust to do excision, but you know, a lot of it just comes down To being safe and feeling heard. And that's what I want you to feel like when you're in my office, that I've heard every concern of yours that I've clarified, okay, I'm hearing this. Is it this or is it that? Which one is that? Okay, great. Um, and oftentimes it's a team. You need acupuncture, you need functional medicine. Your gut is extremely disrupted postpartum, which a lot of people will notice. So using a functional medicine provider, because you're Completely autoimmune while you're pregnant and postpartum, right? And sometimes then your body spins down that rabbit hole. So really putting together a team of providers that calms the nervous system, treats the victims of endo, and then finding a surgeon who gets rid of the endo is typically my priority. But I, I value myself that I work in a really great network of people in SLO that. You need functional med. I got you. Do you need an acupuncture? I got you. You need a body worker, a lymphatic drainage specialist. There's people that are good at this. We're just not hearing about it at our doctor. You know? They're just not providing it.
Cheryl:You're kinda like a realtor. How we have everybody for the house. You've got
Lauren Edwards:Right,
Cheryl:the other stuff.
Colleen:for the, I, I, when Cheryl already said this once, but I, I wish our audience could just see my face this whole time. Like, first of all, my eyes are gonna bulge out of my head because all the things you're talking about are things that, you know, like I feel like I had three really normal, regular kind of pregnancies and Well four,'cause I was pregnant prior to my first child, which I think is also something that, you know, having four pregnancies in four years is a lot also on your body. But like when you talk about all the different parts, like when you talk like every, literally everything you just said, I was like, oh, that's me. Oh, oh, that's me. But I don't think of myself as having any problems, although I have chronic back pain. And I just deal with it. Um, or I go see my chiropractor and it never really gets fixed. Or, you know, like I do the exercises and the stretches and it's fine for a bit, but then it comes back. Or like talking about just like having digestion or indi you know, like intestinal problems. Like I've had indigestion since, since pregnancy. I never had that before. Um, like things like that all the time. Like I'm just like, oh, I just deal with it. And I think that that's, you know, such a, a, a female trait, right? Like a a woman trait is we're just like, oh, all this shit's going on, but like, uh, uh, I'll just deal with it. Like, imagine how heavy could function. Yeah. Imagine like how of a high like function. We function at a high level. Imagine how much higher of a level we could function if I wasn't constantly thinking about my back pain or constantly.You know, like not worried about like, what's happening with my stomach or my, you know, whatever.
Cheryl:or imagine how much better you could rest if you weren't in pain. Like
Lauren Edwards:talk about. Sleep.
Cheryl:it, you know?
Lauren Edwards:Yeah.
Colleen:I can't rest at all. I
Lauren Edwards:Well, and it's, I, I, think it's the biggest challenge in my field is that we know we need to do self-care. We need to take, you know, mindfulness and take a walk and move our bodies. And you're like, well, I also have three kids. I, I run a household and I have a full-time business. And so I try my best to be like, what can you give me 10 minutes a day? Can we do 10 minutes? Is it driving in the car like. Trying to really figure out like, where can we make this effective for you? Because at the end, yes, we power through and we survive, but the statistics tell us that they're, yes, we can do that because we're young. Young and our hormones haven't bottomed out on us. And we haven't started losing bone mass and we haven't started losing muscle strength yet. But we will, you know, once you turn 30, which is really fun, you lose 10% of the striated muscle around your, um, bladder sphincter a year. It's gone and you don't get it back. So if your bladder neck is already kind of sad'cause it got stretched during childbirth, or you strained to pee. You're in trouble and there's not a lot we can do about that other than support the structures around it. And so that's what we're trying to change this, this conversation to of it's not just the pain or it's not just, it's like holistically mothers need or birthing. People need better care. That gives us better quality of life for us to live our life. When our kids have left, we have a whole other life ahead of us. Right.
Cheryl:I'm looking forward to that one. Love you kids. Uh, Okay. Lauren, tell listeners what they could expect if they went to visit a pelvic floor specialist. What would an appointment look like? What should it look like? What shouldn't it look
Lauren Edwards:Yeah, I was gonna say, I can tell you what it looks like to see me. Um, I also try to share like common red flags of like, I think I'm in the wrong place, but, um, typically there should be a pretty intensive medical intake that covers pretty much your current symptoms, your history, um, talking about a variety, if a. If a client is, or a practitioner's only talking about your bladder, they're missing something. Um, I will tell you that I treat rectally a lot and people's eyeballs are like this, and they're like, you're going where? I'm like, listen, it's all the same group of muscles, different spot. If you're having pain that has not resolved and you're not being treated rectally, you're at the wrong place, which is not a great thought that you have to do that, but that's one of them. But you'll have a rather intensive intake just to give us as much information as possible. So I know how to approach you. If you've had traumatic bursts that included vacuums and being forced to birth on your back and a unwanted app episiotomy, that's gonna change the way I touch you and I approach you if you're real straightforward, you have, you know. Clear cut goals of, Hey, this is my only problem. I only leak when I jump. I wanna fix that. That changes how I approach you. But all session essentially includes, um, talking about the pelvic floor, showing you what it looks like on a model, showing you what's happened during childbirth or your trauma and you fell on your tailbone. and then it's really like a top to bottom assessment like I'm looking at, I'm feeling you energetically, which feels a little wooey. One of the midwives in my office is like You're kind of like an energy worker. Do you know that? And I do think I do clear energy that has been stuck from birth, but I don't really specialize in anything. But I will feel you is one side bigger, tighter, moving differently. Then we look at your breathing, your rib cage like we talked about. We will, um, check for DRA diastasis rectus abdominis, which is everyone's favorite hot topic right now. Um, that is a whole thing in itself. Width is different than depth. So we'll talk about are they separating, but when they separate, do I hit something hard or do I fall and touch your guts? So we talk about that. I then touch a lot of ligaments. Your anchoring ligaments, who are your bladder for your uterus, um, for your bowels. Um, at your hips. We then, um, will put you through a screening for, hypermobility, which is very common, and we don't know what's going on there, but that's a big factor we're seeing. It's a screening tool, and then we take all of that information paired with your symptoms, and we, and I try to educate you on why I think it's happening, if I do know. And then the most basics is good bowel and batter health. We should poop every day, every day, every day, maybe two to three times a day. If you are missing a day of pooping, you're doing it wrong. It's a little plan on your podcast, and you should be peeing every four to six hours, six being the long end, like you're getting in a car ride, you have a big meeting. We should not be waking up to pee if we aren't 65 or older. If you're, I don't care if you're feeding a baby, you're not peeing, okay? So we're not peeing when we wake up in the night. Um, we should be able to hold our urge at least for 15 minutes. If you are walking to the bathroom and being like, Ooh, and I'm starting trickle, that's urg incontinence. So I give the same conversation to everyone. Everyone's very familiar with stress urinary incontinence, which is, I cough, I sneeze, I jump, I laugh, I run, I leak. That is stress incontinence. I will tell you we're moving that into more of like a um, symptom and not a diagnosis that is a symptom of something else, but that's a type of incontinence. The one no one really understands or talks about is urge incontinence. So I'm walking to the bathroom and I'm leaking. I hear running water. I gotta pee right Then my daughter has to go pee. I'm taking her to the bathroom. Oh, I think I have to pee. I may have just peed 30 minutes ago, but now I have to pee. Urge incontinence is really funny. It is a brain bladder disconnect and I don't mean it'cause they'll say the doctor said it's in my head and it kind of is, but in the nicest way possible, which is. When we potty train boys or girls, it's very different typically with boys because they can pee in a bush or a public park and not touch anything. We don't really care so much. We just say, all right, let's go. Our daughters, Hey, we're going to the park and you need to pee. Hey, mom's gonna the bathroom. Come with me. Hey, we're about to leave the house. Go pee. You know what that turns into? Oh, when I see my purse, I always have to pee. If I walk past the bathroom, I always have to pee. What happened was when we were little, we didn't let our bladder decide. Our mom put us on the toilet and said, we gotta go. You gotta pee before we leave the house. And so you're sitting there being like, okay, I'm gonna pee. And I do, and I get to go to the park. The problem is the bladder's doing. But I didn't say to go, why are we sitting here? And so then it starts to be like, I guess the brain gets to call the shots. Well, the brain is a really funky little thing, and it might decide that when you're three streets away from your house. That's when you gotta pee. It just starts picking up these little things. And so that's when we talk a lot about potty training. Girls is really important to encourage. How do you feel? Do you have to go to the bathroom? And it's the same for us in postpartum, is that there tends to be a lot of urgency because of the trauma. I. It doesn't mean you get to go to the bathroom every 30 minutes. It means we have to change that behavior because that can be a very slippery slope for people. It starts of just feeling the urgency to need to pee, um, when you, when you're in a bathroom, but then that can get worse to just peeing before you even get outta your car. So that's the type of, um, urinary urgent incontinence that people get like totally baffled by.
Cheryl:That's so.
Colleen:I literally have to pee now because you talked about peeing.
Lauren Edwards:Yeah. See
Colleen:Like, I'm like, I, now I have to pee. so interesting about the potty training thing, and I, I mean, who knows about that besides you? Like, can you write a book? Can you write a book about potty
Lauren Edwards:Well there, there's, they, we call it Jing, just in case peeing Jing. So we're Like, you're Jing all over yourself.,because we just in case pee all the time. Or people who leak, like you leak in gym class, so you're like, I peed when I left the house and I peed before I went in the class. You're still gonna leak. It's not about, it's not about the, the, liquid in the bladder, it's about your insufficiencies. But you start to just develop these habits thinking you're protecting yourself and you're just making it worse. And that's a hard concept to get, and I spend so much time with people, but urgent continence is actually the easiest treated. I can treat it in almost a session by just giving you the education and teaching you techniques to quiet the bladder when it shouldn't be talking to you.
Colleen:So, Lauren, if we are in Central California, we can come and see you, right? But if we are not. how do we find somebody who does all of these magical things that, that you are doing? So I'm in Indianapolis. Like if I'm like, how do I, like, is there a network that you have or is there a way to do our research?
Lauren Edwards:So there is a website called, uh, pelvic Pt Rehab Providers, and it's just where people launch themselves. I'm actually not even on the website because I didn't take the final test. I kind of pivoted into more of a holistic approach, and so I, I, I trained out with a holistic group in Colorado, but that's a good place to start. Honestly. Google reviews is the best thing you can do. Just type pelvic pt rehab near me and then just ask questions. Are you trained in visceral mobilization? Are you familiar with closing the birth pattern? Um, or just be really specific, like, Hey, I'm having. Left sided si joint. I can take it all the way back to my pregnancy. Um, are you, are you comfortable treating this? Is this something you look at? Um, I just think it's really important. I, Cheryl had mentioned biofeedback, which we probably met three years ago. How old's your daughter?
Cheryl:Emmy is four, so probably about four years ago you were in that office, you were just moving into your office.
Lauren Edwards:Yeah, so I don't even do biofeedback anymore'cause I think that system is flawed. Um, I do think there's a time and place for it, but I would say if a client, if a practitioner's not putting their hands on you and in you, which sounds kind of weird, obviously with permission. If you go to a physical therapy clinic and they say, oh yeah, we do pelvic floor, and all you're doing is like glute bridges and AB exercises, you're actually doing more harm than good. So I would just say, Hey, are you trained in internal work? Do you do vaginal and rectal? Um, anyone who's had a vaginal birth or c-section truthfully needs rectal work as well. There is so much, I'm sure those who have had vaginal birth can recall that. It feels like the baby came out your butt hole the entire time. It had nothing to do with your vagina.
Colleen:Well, you talked about pushing and, and that's a whole nother thing and you know, I know we're, but I for three hours with my first baby because I didn't know how to do it, and I was also So worried about pooping myself. Like I was so worried and embarrassed about that. And then finally they said to me, you, you've got 30 minutes, or we're gonna use the vacuum. And I, I was like, all right, we gotta get her out. Right. So, but that three and a half hours of pushing, because I just wasn't doing it right. Right. Like that's like. There's gotta be, I probably did something really bad to myself, during all of that, but it's just like nobody teaches you how to do that. And everybody talks about, everybody talks about pooping on the table and it's like a bad thing, but like that's prob, but you have to push like you're pooping, right? Like, am I wrong? How do you push to push a baby out? How should you think about that?
Cheryl:That's fascinating, Colleen, that you said you, um. Uh, when they said they were gonna get the vacuum, you suddenly were able to like, push and get her out. When my OB walked in the, the room with August, she said, okay, get me the vacuum. And I was like, no. She's like, okay, you can try. And I pushed twice and I had her out All I needed, I mean, I they were telling me not to push for hours.
Colleen:I literally was like, just let me give me a chance. Like, just gimme a chance here. And he is like, you've been pushing for three hours. And I was like, but like, just give me a chance, And he was, and literally within a, you know, like, like a half an hour, but to get her completely out. Right. So yeah, within a few pushes I figured out how to get our head Out and then we got there. But yeah, it's nuts. I I'm like, now gonna fly to you guys and have her fix my whole body and then come back and I'm like, who? Who's coming with me? We gotta do this.
Cheryl:Yeah,
Colleen:We can, she travel.
Cheryl:The, well, she's having a hell of a time with childcare, which is have to be another episode. But she's back. She's back.
Colleen:Yay. She's.
Cheryl:you missed, I told Colleen my story about My OB walked in and she said, okay, get the vacuum. And I was like, no. And I pushed twice and had her out, but they'd been telling me not to push for like 45 minutes while they were waiting for her to arrive, which is a whole different set of hell.
Colleen:oh yeah. So I pushed for three and a half hours to get my daughter out because I didn't know how to push and I was afraid of pooping on the table because that is a fear that I think new moms have, and I think that there.We all talk about it as new as pregnant women who are gonna give birth. Like, I don't wanna poop on the table, I don't wanna poop on the table. And I was so afraid of pooping on the table, which now I've said this a hundred times in this podcast, But, um, that I wouldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't figure out how to push my daughter out. And it wasn't until they were like, um, we're gonna bring the vacuum out like that. They were like, okay, well you've got 30 more minutes of pushing.'cause that'll be three and a half hours of pushing and your daughter's gonna go into distress and then we're gonna bring the vacuum out. And I was like, oh hell no, I did not work. Do all this work like, and there was also like a pride thing. I was like, I am going to push this baby out because I have done all this work so far and it's not like there's any problem, you know, if that's what you have to do. But I finally got her out because I just let go of this idea and I was They were like, push like you're gonna poop. And I think it's just something that we don't know how to do.
Lauren Edwards:Yeah, Which is true, to be honest. That's what, when we poop and give birth, they're the two things that mimic the correct movement of the pelvic floor. Otherwise, kind of back to that diaphragm philosophy. When we inhale and lengthen, that's what should be happening when we deliver baby and when we poop. And so I think we do have to let go of the pooping thing'cause there's so many bodily fluids. I've witnessed a lot of bursts now that I'm in this and it's so it's like one of many very odd looking things that happen.
Colleen:and the nurses just sweep it all away so
Lauren Edwards:Scoop it away. Exactly. Yeah. So, um, I do tell people I'm actually in the works of creating a birth course because so many people have been like, what you taught me was life changing. Um, but in a perfect world, 30 minutes is actually too fast and one hour is too long. So we shoot for a 45 minute pushing face. We talk a lot about what you can do to control that experience. A lot has to do with your hip and pelvis. So we talk a lot about position, but really it comes down to breathing. And I tell people everywhere you inhale to open your pelvic floor and then you shove the baby through that door, but you have to open the door. So if you're fighting a wall of muscles that's been tight your entire pregnancy, and maybe since your first or third or 10th baby, or you've had pelvic floor dysfunction before you even got pregnant, that pelvic floor is not gonna move unless you know how you're gonna just barrel through it. That's what we wanna change. That's where the maternal injuries come. That's where fetal distress comes. That's where these conversations start. I obviously believe there's a time and place for intervention, like a vacuum when or a breath holding procedure, but I think we can do better. I really, really believe
Cheryl:I was gonna just say that where can people find you and watch you and know when this course is coming out, and how can we learn more from you?
Colleen:and will you travel to Indianapolis?
Lauren Edwards:Yeah, so,
Cheryl:Listen, Taylor Swift. is gonna be in Indianapolis next November. If you wanna go with me. I wanna, Colleen.
Lauren Edwards:I mean, I've never been, I'm not opposed to it. I I would say that Instagram's the best place. That's where I'm actually collecting data to figure out what is, and that's what I've been doing is just kinda like, what did I teach you that was really your light bulb moment. and trying to do more classes because I can't reach everybody, but we have to do something about what we're doing to mothers. Um. Locally and obviously, um, all over the country. Instagram's kind of where we're starting. The real hope is to get it up in the next two months, and it's just small group learning where we really talk about this stuff. I call it the shit no one talks about. Because no one's talking about things that you can change, like things you get to impact. You walk into that birth and all you've learned was what 10 centimeters look like. And sometimes those birthing classes, they're just teaching you to do be a good patient in the hospital. And that's not really what you need to know.
Cheryl:No. In fact, I think you, you're better off if you're not being the good patient and you're doing it your way and not following their rules.
Colleen:I,
Lauren Edwards:Exactly. Exactly.
Colleen:have to tell you these two things, and I know we are running quickly outta time, but let me tell you these two things. One, I went to a birthing class and they gave us, they handed up ice around to everybody. They said, hold it in your hand. I. For 30 for whatever, 30 seconds or something like that. They're like, that's how long a contraction lasts. And that's how a contraction's gonna be. And let me tell you, holding ice in your hand for 30 seconds is like not even close to what a contraction feels like. Especially if you're like a on Pitocin contractions, that's a whole nother level. And two, when you said the 10 centimeters thing. When I was having my first baby, I, I couldn't dilate, like I, was so tense. I was trying to have her naturally, I couldn't dilate. and I, they showed us the diagram. They're like, you're at two, three centimeters and you've been doing this for hours. and um, you need to get to 10. And they showed us the diagram of it, And my husband looked at me and he goes, that looks like a fucking dinner plate, I was like,
Lauren Edwards:I'm That's probably realistically what it looks like.
Colleen:Yeah. And I was like, oh my God, how am I gonna do this? And it wasn't until, to your point of this stress and like holding on, it wa I ha I didn't wanna have, an epidural, but it wasn't until I had an epidural that my body could relax. And I went from two centimeters to seven centimeters in half an hour because I was so
Lauren Edwards:some people need them. I tell people all the time, there are tools that you get to use, but use them and be informed with them. And, and that's really as AP as my job. All I wanna do is help you. So if you come in being like, I want an epidural, blah, blah, blah, great, let's do it. But the problem is no one knows how to birth a baby. There are a few who are beautiful. They have no pelvic floor dysfunction. They've had five babies. I, they exist, but unfortunately the world that we're living in post covid, we have seen 60% increase in pelvic floor needs. Just from Covid, so anxiety alone, you know what I mean? So we have to acknowledge that yes, birth is very physiological and natural in nature. It is not that anymore. Now that we have pelvic floor dysfunction, if the group of muscles that is supposed to let the baby out doesn't know how to give, we're in a trouble. And that's what I'm trying to help people understand.
Colleen:amazing. Well, you're doing amazing work.
Lauren Edwards:The obs don't love me for it, but thank you. I appreciate that.
Cheryl:The obs Need some more training in this then, or stay in their lane and let you do what you do.
Lauren Edwards:Yeah. You know, there's some groups that are super responsive, they're wonderful. We play really nice in the sandbox together, and there are others who just are not in it. and I, all I can do is try and educate and empower. I'm a big fan of doulas. I believe you should take a doula with you to your delivery because you need somebody that's there only for you. Your partners, like, you know, they're worried watching you, they're not gonna be able to step up. Some can, but unfortunately we have to work at the confines that we're in, and that does require just more gusto on our end of just saying, Hey, we're not gonna do it like this anymore. And that's my hope is that we change I tell my husband all the time, I'm doing it for my daughter to hope that she doesn't have to go through all the pelvic floor dysfunction and fighting the obs and feeling unheard and unsafe.
Cheryl:Mm-Hmm..Oh, you gave me goosebumps with that. Okay. Lauren's Instagram is at Lauren Edwards pelvic, and it'll be in the show notes for you guys if you wanna, and I'll put all her other details in there too. But Lauren, thank you for such a real conversation. so educational. Yes, it was so great. And when you have your class back like ready, if you're gonna do an online kind of course, then we'd love to have you back on and make sure everybody knows about it.
Lauren Edwards:Cool.
Cheryl:Awesome. Well, thank you
Lauren Edwards:I love that. Thank you guys. This was fun. I.
